Expenses, petty cash, etc.

This question pertains to our Pack but I'll put it in the general section because it could apply to eiter a Pack or Troop I think.

How do you handle program expenses where it's not practical to get a check from the treasurer beforehand?

Two situations:

1. The usual meeting supplies--crafts, decorations, whatever. The Leader Handbook talks about a petty cash fund but we haven't gone that route. It's just easier to use my own plastic and submit the receipts later. But I've never liked that approach--I just don't like getting a check made payable to me by the unit even though I have the docs to support it.

2. Online or other purchases where you can't use a unit check.

We regularly reimburse leaders for program-related out of pocket expenses. The treasurer receives a receipt, writes a check, and then keeps a copy of the receipt in the expense section of a three-ring binder that also contains the bank statements and an income/expense report from Quick Books, or whatever he uses. This binder is available for committee review at each meeting. That seems like a solid paper trail to me. I don't like the idea of having a unit debit card.

IMHO, the key is visibility, openness and simplicity. If you have that, then writing checks and debit cards are not that big of an issue. If you don't have it, then there's big issues no matter how you do it.

Petty cash - I just don't like the idea. What's petty? $10? $25? $50? $200? $500? Also, how many people have petty cash? Den leaders? Cubmaster? Event coordinators? If it's $50 or $100 each, your getting into serious money. Finally, I can guarantee you won't get all your receipts and it will be a pain to balance the books. Most leaders I know don't mind floating small amounts for a week or two. The key is to get them reimbursed quickly and to make it easy for them.

Debit card - Our troop has a scout account with the local scout office. It often has $300 or $500 in it to reserve camps, purchase advancements or other. I can guarantee you that we don't get clean receipts to balance the books on it. The local scout office also doesn't guarantee who can access it or provide reporting of transactions against it.

I'd much rather the scoutmaster have a debit card for the troop. Then, I can see where the money was spent. If necessary, I can ask them to re-print the receipt for transaction #####. We don't have debit cards now, but it's been discussed.

online - For online, we tied our troop bank account to a PayPal account. Easy to do online purchases then.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

In the Pack and Troop I served, the CM/SM had two emergency checks, pre-signed.

He had spending limits on them ... I believe $50 without further coordination, $250 with coordination.

I can tell you right now, getting a pack debit card would not fly! But it would sure make things easy.

I am familiar with PayPal because I use it personally, but I don't understand the process for tying that into the pack checking account.

We decided that leaders could spend up to $25.00 on den/ pack supplies and get reimbursed for that just by having one other leader agree to it. You could call them, emmail them or nboth sign the reciept. Anything over $25.00 needs a leadership vote for reimbursement- wether prior to or after spending the money.

This was so you wouldn't worry about not getting reimbursed later for a small expenditure for scouting relate supplies.

As Cubmaster I got the Pack to start using a debit card. I found it very convenient. I like that you can see where everything went and probably could go back and get copies of receipts if necessary.

The troop hasn't gone to a debit card and as a result I finance a lot of outings and purchases on my credit card and then get reimbursed. It's inconvenient but I guess I get more frequent flyer points.

We have 2 debit cards, one for the CM and one for the treasurer. Any purchases over $25 must be approved by 2 committee members. We have an account at the scout shop, that the advancement chair is on, as well.

As CC, I should have a debit card as well, but I really don't want one. Then they would expect me to go do the shopping for camping trips, etc...just because I'm a stay at home mom and everyone else works. (Never mind that I'm over an hour away from everyone else.) Sooo, every time they mention getting me onto the bank accounts, I get "busy". I still get all the reports, bank statements, etc.

Our dens are responsible for their own supplies. The parents can either buy the supplies or give money to the den leader for those (most dens charge $1 a meeting, so basically $3 a month).

Our dues are fairly low, ($45-65, depending on rank) + $10 advancement fee (covers book, necker, and slide). We charge for everything (campouts are $5-15 depending on where we're camping--includes cost of food). This might be changing, since we were down over $4000 in popcorn sales this year (guess I was a bad pk, or it could be the fact we're over 10% unemployment here).

I'd be very cautious about going that PayPal route. PayPal isn't a "real" bank, and isn't required to abide by the same laws pertaining to privacy, insurance, fraud protection, etc, that a real bank has. Sure, it's not bad for doing a bit of buying and selling on eBay, but I'd recommend carefully evaluating how much of your troop's funds you want to tie to PayPal.

Not saying that a debit card is a great idea either, but I'd go with a debit card from a real bank over PayPal myself.

I like the debit card idea, I really do.

However, I can also tell you that if we brought it up at a committee meeting, the CC would freak out.

Here's how the conversation would likely go:

"You mean that someone could take the debit card and go buy ANYTHING they wanted at the store?"

"Well, I suppose so, but we need to trust our leaders, we have rules and procedures in place regarding expenses, and we'd have an audit trail by virtue of receipts and bank statements."

"But that's after the fact. What would PREVENT someone from stealing?"

"Ummmm....nothing but their morality?"

I'm pretty sure it would go down this way because I had the exact same discussion with the CC a while back when I was named CM and I needed to get paperwork signed to put me and our new advancement coordinator on the scout shop account so that we could charge badges etc. against the Pack credit.

It was just like that..."What's to prevent you from going in and buying whatever you want?" Ummm...nothing, but our treasurer does get the scout shop statements each month...

You get the picture? Our CC is completely disengaged from the Pack, and when the CC does get engaged there is a complete level of distrust. Which is a whole 'nuther situation altogether that I don't want to get into here.

So the genesis of this question is that it's a real pain to get a check from the treasurer for a bunch of piddly expenses from different stores. On the other hand, when we use our own funds and then turn in reimbursements later, the CC doesn't like the fact that so-and-so got "a big check from the pack."

Clearly, there are bigger problems here but that is just the backstory.

For purposes of practicality, and since I need to operate within the pack as it is structured, I'm trying to find a "better way" of handling expenses that I can propose to the committee/treasurer.

I'm looking for procedure that charges purchases DIRECTLY to the unit without having to get a bunch of different checks from the treasurer made out to numerous different vendors.

My pack SM has a petty cash box with about $40-50 in it. He brings it most meetings and some outings/events to collect money in, make change, reimburse small receipts for events. then he turns that all over to the treasurer with signatures, and she gives him cash back to keep it at the balance they agree upon him needing. At roundup the balance may be different than a balance needed for a popcorn sales change box, but it averages $50. He's a police man so if he has a box with a bit extra in it, it is pretty safe. Cubmaster can approve expenditures up to about the $50 limit. Expenditures over $50 have to go thru the treasurer and committee approval.

Our troop SM has a petty cash box with I'm pretty sure more $ in it. It is used to buy last minute supplies for trips, provide gas money if needed, copies, pay back imediately the person who rented a uhaul trailer when the troop trailer was down for the weekend campout, etc. It stays locked in the SM's office, treasurer collects the receipts out of it that have been signed by SM and replaces the cash. The expenditures are approved by committee ahead of time except in the case of emergency when approval of SM, and several committee members is usually sufficient.

Most units don't have a locked office in a locked building to keep a locked cash box, so that probably wuldn't fly for most part. I actually don't like having hundreds of dollars of cash hanging out in the SM office, it seems like asking for trouble since quite a few people do have keys to that office.

One year, we bought $25 gift cards for each den leader. When it was gone, we got them another one. I think I was the only one that used more than 1 card, but I had Webelos and there were more expenses. We asked for and kept no records. Wasn't worth the time for all the small $2.00 purchases.

Next time around for my other son, I just started doing $1.00 per week dues. I told the parents, most of whom had older kids in the pack and new my character well that again, there would be no accounting for the money. They also knew that I was always spending my own money far more than what was in the jar. Our last year as a den, 100% of the dad's were unemploiyed thanks to the good work of the commie Governor of our state who employed policies that made the economy far worse than it had to be. So, needless to say, we didn't spend too much money on program.

What's funny is that my main financial concern in the troop is not fraud. My main concern is getting people reimbursed and reimbursed quickly. The last thing I want is for the unit leader's spouse developing a grudge against scouting because he (or she) swallows several hundred of dollars of cost every year or floats big dollar amounts for a period of time.

Though fraud does happen all the time and MUST be our main concern, the opposite problem is more common in scouts.

When I was a den leader, our pack had $10 den dues that were added on to the annual fee. Once all the scouts in the den had paid their dues, the den leader was given a check in the amount of $10 per boy. That money was for the den leader to use for any den expenses throughout the course of the year and if there was anything leftover, it could be used for an end of the year treat or to subsidize the cost of an outing.

Obviously, this won't work in all areas and doesn't solve trust issues, but it was a great way handle the small expenses that were regularly incurred in preparation for den meetings.

Fred makes a good point that you want to avoid burdening leaders when you can.

Personally, I've paid off receipts from den leaders upon request and turned in the receipts myself to the treasurer.

I front $150 cash to use as change when the popcorn sale got started and was reimbursed from cash from sales.

I turn in a sheet of paper on which I list each receipt and amount and number each item sequntially. I write the sequence number on the receipt to make it easy for the treasurer to connect up the receipts and understand the purpose of the purchase.

At least as important as expenses is accounting for sales and cash receipts to the pack, such as for membership, activities and such.

For that I use a receipt books with three copies of each receipt. One copy is given to the person paying the money. A second copy is sent to the treasurer along with the payments, and the third copy remains with the receipt book as my record.

That way everyone is protected, and the treasurer is as well informed as practical that all payments are being accounted for.