Lock blade knives

While on a camping trip this past weekend we had planned to do the Totin Chip for 2 new boys in the Troop. The ASM of the Troop made a statement that the "BSA now requires only lockblades and that the Scout Shops no longer are allowed to sell the old ones". He felt that the boys should not be allowed to earn the Totin chip because they had the wrong type of knife. These two boys had just purchased knives as they just joined the Troop. They both bought the classic boy scout knife at the scout shop about two weeks ago.

So as SM I decided that I would loan the 2 boys my knife (to share) to learn on. My knife is a lockblade, so they earned the chip. This way the ASM was happy and if the boys had to return the knives they had bought they could do so as the knife had never been used.

So yesterday and today I did some research and I can find no such official rule about this.

Just to be aware though I happen to prefer lockblades and both my son and I have those. They are much safer for lots of different uses.

Basically my question is: Is there a new policy or is this just recommended?

As far as I am aware, there is no such policy. I would ask the ASM to show you where it says that.

It is not a national policy, but some councils have the policy. Call your DE and ask if the council has anything in writing.

Barry

No type of policy like that exists! Sounds like this guy learned something & is mis-interpreting it!

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

Fixed blade is the policy I am aware of under health and safety.

Pretty much took away the use of survival type knives. In our district some peopole interpreted a buck knife lock blade knife and outlawed them.

local rule is your jewel. Know what is accepted in your district and carry on.

think Safety!

Yah, hmmm...

No national BSA rule.

Council may have a local rule which applies to council & district events (but would only be advisory for a troop event).

Troop may have a local rule which applies to troop events.

State may have laws about knives in terms of concealed carry of "weapons."

Sounds like ASM misinterpreted a council rule as applying to a troop outin'. Or he may have just heard someone offerin' good safety advice a bit too stridently, and interpreted it as a rule .

Beavah

I think the classic scout knives were made by the now-defunct Camilus (sp?) knofe company, which would explain the change in design.

"So yesterday and today I did some research and I can find no such official rule about this."

Why were you doing the research instead of the one claiming a new rule? Until proven different, our troop goes by the printed Handbook, G2SS, etc. etc. The burden is on he who wants it different.

When teaching Whittlin' Chip or Totin' Chip, we always teach safe handling of ALL types of knives/axes/saws. Then, as G2SS or District rules dictate, we note that (ie, no "survival" knives, etc.) and we make LARGE note of school restrictions (knife possession equals suspension).

Folding knives (clasp and lockback) only on Scout activities. Others not necessary (except for perhaps kitchen knives for cooking use).

ASM shaving with super sharpened axe will be considered later...

Yep... I had a youth working staff at a camporee challenge me that the blade of my pocketknife was too long because it was longer than my palm is wide.

All of the Totin Chip requirements can be found in the Scout Handbook (ref: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/s/totin.html) and there's nothing in there that says a pocketknife has to lock or be limited in length (as in my case). Others here have pointed out there could be local council, district, or unit rules that place restrictions on pocketknives or state laws that define when a pocketknife is considered an illegal weapon.

As others have suggested, I'd politely ask the ASM where he heard about the "extra rules" to see if they can be substantiated. If they can, make sure they're understood and followed. If they can't, I suppose you can choose to either ignore them or decide that they're a good idea for your unit and adopt them.

BTW... I did verify that my knife was perfectly legel. :-)(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Thanks for all these great responses. I didn't challenge the ASM in front of the boys because that wouldn't be right (its bad enough the boys challenge each other all day long).

I asked him at our Troop meeting today and what he told me was that he heard it up at the local scout shop. Seems the new knves at the scout shop are locking blades. He didn't hear this from a scout shop employee, just some other person that was buying one of the new scout knives.

However, some of the boys from the trip did ask about this issue and we told them about some of the models available.

>>Folding knives (clasp and lockback) only on Scout activities. Others not necessary (except for perhaps kitchen knives for cooking use).

Just to change the subject a little. So what are some models to recommend that have a locking blade?

My own choice to carry most of the time is the Victorinox Rucksak, it has a locking blade (with a slide button to release the blade, its safe enough if you pay attention), plus it has a little saw, screwdrivers, can openers and punch.

My son prefers the Victorinox Picknicker, same as above but no saw.

I also have three of Victorinox Workchamps, one for each car and my desk at work.

What are some other types that you all prefer?

I have a lightweight Buck that has a 3" blade and only weighs 1.5 oz, that's my hiking knife. I usually carry a Kershaw Whirlwind assisted opening knife. Other times I carry my Buck 500 or my Beretta Airlight. Rarely do I carry a Swiss Army knife.

"Fixed blade is the policy I am aware of under health and safety."

You need to read that again, fixed blades are discouraged for reasons of size and weight but not prohibited.

It may do well to review what the Guide to Safe Scouting says about knives:

A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

Rememberknives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

So, no mention of lockblades and a warning about, not a prohibition of, sheath knives.