Scoutmastering in a boy run troop (was cursing)

>>Scoutmaster to young Scout trying out new words:

That kind of talk is offensive to a lot of people. Are you trying to portray a low-life image or yourself? Using those kinds of words shows others how limited your vocabulary is and how self-centered and offensive you can be. How about using other words to express your thoughts that are not offensive to others, get your message across, and dont diminish your good character?

I have to own up to not following the thread on cursing.

I quit when I seen the bit about parents being asked to remove their son from camp.

I can't help thinking that both FScouter and Eagledad have done a wonderful job of showing that one size doesn't fit all when it comes to dealing with situations.

Sure the easy way out is to post the "No Cursing" Rule along with the consequence, but that shouldn't be the way we do things.

Eamonn.

We use a "Cuss Cup". Anyone who curses or says "Oh my G**" pays the "Cup" a quarter. Adults included including visitors.

So I guess you could say we have a "No Cursing" rule. I don't see that as a problem. There are lots of rules in life we must adhere to.

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

I covered this subject as part of my patrol's presentation at Wood Badge recently.

With your "cuss cup", it sounds like it is OK to break the 11th point (and other points) of the Scout Law by paying a fine. Is this REALLY the message that you want to give your Scouts, that in order to make it "OK", all you have to do is to pay a fine?. We are ALWAYS Scouts, whether we are in uniform or not. Yes, it if fun to do, and it sort of gets the point across, but wouldn't it be better if the person that used the offending lanugage would stand before the troop and apologize? What would you think would be more effective? A fine where no one sees? or Standing up, admitting that you were wrong and moving on from there?

Just my $0.02(This message has been edited by Mr.Mal)

Gosh, Darn and dang! wouldn't making a "fowl" mouth scout actually apologize in front of the troop be hazing?

As with all un-pleasant behaviors...as scouters our "job" is to try to find a technique that works within our diverse groups..."one size" never fits all....

(but gosh, if it were possible... a "slap" upside the head would be really enlightening for some of these boys {and Adults}...from a politically incorrect point of view, of course...;>)

Anarchist

I do like Anarchist's wack upside the head...but...

If it is a boy run troop the first line of response should be coming from the PL then the SPL. If the SPL cannot get satisfaction then HE should go the the SM for assistance. Until that point, unless these is a dangerous situation being created, shouldn't it be only advise to the SPL from the SM? If it is not coming directly from the boy leaders then why? I have this problem all the time with the SM and ASM's jumping right in and taking care of things, "because the PL/SPL did not get it under control immediatly". Well how will they ever learn to do these things when the adult leadership is doing them? As part of a SM Conference a problem with a certain scout should certainly be addressed. Dealing with the issue of uniforms, cursing, talking during a presentation, not working with the patrol during the patrol meeting and the list can go on are part of growing and if a PL can let one of his own know how important certain things are then something big has been gained by both boys. We need to show the boys that we trust them to take care of these. YiS

The Cuss Cup has helped us practically eliminate this type of language. A quarter might not seem like a lot but it isn't the money that's important.

Apologizing in front of the Troop in no way would be hazing! In some instances it is appropriate.

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

>>If it is a boy run troop the first line of response should be coming from the PL then the SPL. If the SPL cannot get satisfaction then HE should go the the SM for assistance.

"We use a "Cuss Cup". Anyone who curses or says "Oh my G**" pays the "Cup" a quarter. Adults included including visitors"

I really don't like this idea.

I have seen people try to use this and while it starts off well it very quickly becomes a real pain.

Scouts will go out of their way to taunt other Scouts in order to get them to cuss.

There have been times when things have happened where cursing might be the lesser of two evils.

I'd much prefer someone to let of steam by swearing than beating the heck out of someone.

When we have to rely on consequences in order to be leaders I can't help feel that something is not right.

Cuss - You pay 25 cents.

Mis-use a sharp tool -The corner comes off your card.

Lose your Scout cap -Sing a silly song.

I HOPE NOT.

Eamonn.

I sense that we're almost choosing up sides on how to deal with issues of discipline in a troop, whether "boy run", "adult run", or "adult guided". Please, let's not forget the GUIDE part.

I'm nodding at some of the suggestions, and shaking my head at others. I believe that there is no single correct way to deal with matters of cursing, losing things, misusing tools, respecting others, and just about every value that we are trying to instill in our scouts. While some people might consider singing a silly song to be demeaning, my troop has found that a little embarrassment works. Hazing? I don't think it is. In fact, when a scout starts to feel uneasy by being expected to sing, another scout will almost always spontaneously jump into the circle and say "Come on, I'll do it with you." That's scout spirit in my book. Cutting a corner off a card? It works for us (only had to cut off 2 corners in several years)!

Every one of us is human, and we all have our own experiences and set of values. We have all made some of the same mistakes. Some of us have yet to actually experience some situations, so we don't really know how we will respond, theories aside.

Every boy is different. So is every troop. So is every SPL. Maybe a strong SPL can handle discipline, but a weaker SPL is going to need more support from his adult leaders.

A case in point: last night, the troop was gathered for instruction by one of the senior boys when another older boy started acting up, soon encouraging a number of younger scouts to follow suit. The SPL was doing nothing to remedy the situation; the instructor tried, but was ineffective. Finally another older scout (a former SPL) stood up and quite eloquently addressed the problem, leaning on respect, ability to learn, loyalty to the troop, etc. It worked for everyone except the instigator, who started back-talking and making a scene. At that point, I calmly removed the boy and had a next-room conference with him and another adult. The boy spent the rest of the meeting listening from the other end of the room without further incident.

The former SPL's message to the boys was so well done that I deferred my prepared SM Minute, pointing out that they'd already heard a "minute" from their former SPL, and encouraged them to reflect on that message and the evening.

Every situation that arises is different. There may be similarities to other situations, but there will always be minor differences that, in conjunction with our own moods, experiences, and foibles as adults, and the changing dynamics of our troops, will cause us to make different judgements. Not only is this a part of human nature, but I believe it is the only fair way to set a model for boys to follow.

Absolute consistency is a myth. Integrity is key. What works for me might not work for you. Maybe I've tried what you're suggesting and found that it didn't work in my situation.

I guess what I would like to read is more examples of what has worked, rather than what can appear to be second-guessing of another person's approach. But then, maybe I'm just in a bad mood. I hope no one takes offense, because none is intended. Let the dialogue continue.

We have in the past looked at hazing and placing a Scout in a situation with the intent of embarrassing him is just hazing.

When I look at what FScouter wrote, I see question marks.

As Mr.Mal has pointed out the "Cuss Cup" seems to pass on the message that if you drop your quarter in the cup you are good to go.

If we really want to help the Scouts we serve make ethical decisions we need to place them in situations where they have to decide what is the right thing to do.

The questions asked by FScouter do just that.

The cuss cup doesn't.

Asking a Scout why he needs to look after his possessions and property? Explaining why this important is far better than embarrassing him and hazing him.

Eamonn.

Ahh. If a Scout taunts another Scout in the attempt to get him to pay the Cup the taunter also owes!

The Cuss Cup has worked for us. The Scouts & adults know we don't tolerate this type of language & therefore refrain from using it. Does this help them make ethical decisions? Yes it does.

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

Where does the money go that your "cuss cup" generates?

Hopefully, there isn't enough in it to set up a scholarship program (wink)

Does the cup method really achieve the real objective? What does the boy do in a situation when there is no cup? What goes through the boys mind: I want to avoid paying a quarter, or I want to keep a clean mouth and not offend others?

>>If we really want to help the Scouts we serve make ethical decisions we need to place them in situations where they have to decide what is the right thing to do.