Not every parent being on the committee

Beavah wrote:

If you've got them on your committee because somewhere along the line someone was dumb enough to invite everyone to be on the committee, then yah, it's always a drag on the SM. In my experience, open committees only work with like-minded folks; and sometimes not even then. Every parent bein' on da committee is definitely not the BSA model program.

After being in a troop with no committee (SM and CC made all decisions) and now being in a Troop that is run by committee (they make all troop decisions), and invites all parents to be on the committee,

I am starting to think that having only essential committee members is the way to go.

What positions do you think would be essential to making a unit run?

Any insight on what to look for in a person who would make a good committee member?

OK, now to throw a curve.

How do you handle adult leaders (what position do you put them in)when your council is going to manditory training and has siad in a few years any adult going on overnights will need to have SM?Outdoor training?

You need at least three MC to hold a proper BOR. You need a CC to have a charter. I would say the answer depends on the size of the troop.

As to the training issue, it's unrealistic. Are you to tell all parents that they are no longer welcome on overnights because they haven't been trained? According to BSA policy, any parent can attend and observe (but not necessarily lead) any scout function.

scoutldr-

Unrealistic or not, I was told due to insurance reasons, that in my council in a couple of years, it will be required for any adult going on a Troop/Crew overnight has to have SM/Basic Outdoor skills training.

Here in NY, a law just went into effect that all staff at youth camps, must have a background check and any adult (over 18) staying in camp is considered staff.

So, this year we must register any adult attending summer camp as a leader, along with the councils manditory training (all leaders must be trained in their position) This is not very far off.

Having been a CC, and now being a COR, here is my take:

- Quartermaster advisor: Young men need to learn how to keep fabric (tentage) and cast iron (dutch ovens) in top flight condition. The youth quartermasters can do a lot of the work, but they need ongoing guidance.

- Treasurer: Thousands of dollars pass through a units fund, year to year. Someone who will keep excellent records is not only a Godsend, but absolutely essential to the unit.

- Advancement coordinator: He or she who keeps Troopmaster has the Scouting lives of young men in their hands!!! Frankly, I trust the source records of my units far more than I trust the registrar shop at Council. In an ideal world, this is also the person who helps the SM coordinate SM conferences before advancement, and gets BORs together.

- CC him or herself.

- Anyone who wishes to be a MB counselor inside the unit, since MB counselors must be Scouters.

To me, a big advantage of engaging a parent is avoiding the "baby sitters of America" syndrome. If the parents have some degree of ownership over program support, they have less to comment on ... they're part of the solution

Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

I have always seen the people who volunteer to help as my pals.

We are all doing what we do for the Scouts.

When it comes to selecting people to serve and it is a selection. A few of us will meet normally this meeting is not planned, if it is we hold it in a very relaxed adult setting. One of us (Leader, committee member or someone from the CO) will mention that someone looks like they might be useful on the committee. 99.9% of the time we will all say it's a good idea and someone will volunteer to ask the person.

We normally have a reason for asking or have something that we think that person might be good at.

While the meeting does have an agenda and notes are taken (Minutes??) The meeting does have a set time to start and end. But it seems everyone hangs around for a good 45 minutes after!!

We don't tell anyone that they can't attend, but we don't go out of our way to invite non-committee members.

At this time we have 31 Sea Scouts that come from 28 families. The COR has two boys in the Ship and OJ is in there. We don't need a committee of 26 people.

We do invite parents to get involved. We have a list of drivers, a list of wood workers and a list of people who have offered to help with fund raising depending on the event.

Right now we have a committee of nine (Ten if you include the COR) One is a ER Doctor who doesn't make very many meetings. He is gung-ho about Scouts and Scouting an Ex-Council VP but his main thing is that he will sponsor the golf outing where we hope to raise about $7,000.

We have a Committee Chair, a Treasurer, a Note Taker. Other people have areas which they look after, one Mom has taken on Uniforms,one is looking after fund raising events. They all have things that they have been asked to do.

Of course sometimes it would be a lot more simple to just go ahead and take care of things myself!! Sometimes I really wish I could and find it hard not to.

When this happens I remind myself that it's as much their Ship as it is mine and if I'm doing everything and for some reason had to stop, it would be really hard to keep the Ship going.

While we don't live in each others pockets, I know that I can look in on them at home and within minutes of me arriving either the coffee is on or there is a glass in my hand.

Eamonn.

Anyone who wishes to be a MB counselor inside the unit, since MB counselors must be Scouters.

John in KC - I believe you are mistaken. MB counselors do not need to be registered Scouters. That is, they have to be registered, but pay not fees and are not considered "Scouters" in the traditional sense.

I have a neighbor, a great fisherman, who has no children in Scouts and is a troop MB counselor for our district. Not a Scouter but he is a MB counselor.

I'm not at home, so I don't have BSA requiremets at hand.

EVERY COUNCIL LEVEL APP I just googled has this, or a very similar phrase on it:

"Be registered with the Boy Scouts of America as a merit badge counselor (position code 42)"

Looking online at an older copy of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, #33088B, (1999 edition), here is a quote: "Persons serving as merit badge counselors must be registered as a merit badge counselor with the Boy Scouts of America."

Remembering my Venturing leader specific training, one of the DIFFERENCES between a MB Counselor and a Venturing Consultant is the Consultant indeed need not be a registered Scouter.

YIS

acco40 is correct! A person can register as a MB counselor only.

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

I guess the question John in KC - is a registered merit badge counselor a Scouter?

My take is this - Scouters pay a registration fee. Merit badge counselors do not although they still fill out paperwork (register) and I believe go through a background check.

My story is the same as Eamonn's - all the people on my troop's committee are my friends. I have spent many nights camping with most of them. When there is a position that needs to be filled, we talk amongst ourselves and come up with someone we like. Usually this is an active parent who hasn't been asked to do anything yet.

The one other position I would add to John-in-KC's list is Activity Chair. This is someone who makes the phone calls/reservations and proccesses the tour permits. Having someone dedication to doing this is a big help for me as Scoutmaster. Normally I get the reservation papers and the tour permit handed to me the night before a trip.

As for Merit Badge Councelors, I also agree with Acco40. They don't have to be a member of a Troop, but they do have to fill out an Adult Application Form without paying any registration fee (no Scouter magazine). My Council also has their own Councelor Application Form which needs to be submitted.

I'm inclined to agree that excluding people from a committee is not the way to go most of the time. Sure, I've met some folks on various unit committees who I have wondered about. Some seem to have strange motives for their involvement. A few are downright thorns in most everybody's sides. But they are rare. And I'd rather have them involved, where I know what they're saying and I can help channel their energy into something positive and helpful, rather than uninvolved and sitting in the back of the meeting room and griping.

To me the problem isn't so much that there might be a lot of people on the committee, or which ones are vs. aren't essential. The difficulty is making sure people are doing their job and not trying to do another person's (or everyone else's) job too. Those folks, well they need to go to a good training session or be taken aside and have the committee/SM relationship explained to them in a friendly way. Maybe more than once.

Lisa'bob

We encourage all new families to volunteer one adult for the committee for the first year. Most will do that. The ones that don't, we probably don't want anyway. After that first year, we pretty much know who is a value add to the committee and who is not. Usually only those that are of value are rechartered (troop pays the fees). The ones that truly get involved work very well together and are very effective at what they do.

Our advancement chair tries to pull a variety of people from the committee in for BORs. Over time he has developed his "A-list" of people he prefers and calls on first. (Being active with BORs is one of the values we would recognize when rechartering.)

We encourage everyone who actively participates in campouts to be registered members. I see this as two-way protection. We know that they've passed the BSA background check and they can feel confident that the BSA will stand behind them in a lawsuit.

Our committee meetings are open and all parents are invited/encouraged to attend. This just serves as an extra communication layer that helps get the word out. Yes, we expect the boys to do that, but we know that communication channel is not always effective.

As for MBCs, Ed, Avid, Acco... they've all said it, I won't repeat them.

And finally, as for CNY's original post, I would suggest that neither unit truly is operating under the BSA model. The troop must have a committee, they are the "ways and means" of the troop. They provide us with what we need to run the program. However, they in no way "run the troop". They enable the Scoutmasters who oversee the program and the PLC who runs the program.

All parents don't need to be on the Troop committee. Sometimes too many people isn't a good thing. To be effective, the TC needs to have the interest of all the Scouts at heart. Those not on the committee can help where needed. Too many chiefs & no Indians is not a good thing!

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

I read everyone's responses with interest as this is a current concern in our TC. When our troop started TC was made up of folks who were friends and worked together for the good of the scouts. They knew the scout program, and had integrity. No problems.

As time went on, we encouraged any parent to join the committee upon their son joining the troop. After all, it was their son's troop, right? Wrong!

We have about 6 real workers and about 15 CMs. Most of these admittedly signed up so they would "have a vote" if push comes to shove on anything they see as irregular. Who gave them the idea we GET a vote anyway? We have three people who have been almost constant troublemakers. At committee meetings, they debate every small detail, demand explanations for every SM decision, & make snide remarks, while the rest of us watch the clock tick towards the 3 hour mark! One CM serves at district level-but has violated YPT guidelines and this person's behavior discouraged half of the scouts from returning to summer camp (according to the scouts). He rarely camps or attends meetings. Another member TRAINS (!!!) new adult scouters, but has never been camping and has been known to badger scouts during BOR about their religious beliefs. He also brings pets & his younnger children to BORs! The third...well, he has more training than anyone I have met in ten years of scouting. He gave permission for scouts to smoke on outings, carry sheath knives (and twice a switchbade), and has the worst behaved boy in the troop.(This latter CM was recently removed by the CC/IH) Keep in mind these are a fraction of the problems these three CMs have caused, and would be laughable if they were, well... funny!

I cannot fathom HOW these folks sat through the BSA training and yet DO NOT know the program! More training does not always = qualified. We, as a committee, were too eager to sign up help in the beginning, too eager to please, too trusting. We were acting in good faith & assumed others were too. (That little "Never Assume" saying echos in my head here) After this experience I agree that allowing parents to hang around the first year, giving everyone a chance to get to know each other, is the way to go. Only after seeing how a person operates within the group should they be put on the committee, IMHO.

I agree with the way EagleinKY explains it.

"The troop must have a committee, they are the "ways and means" of the troop. They provide us with what we need to run the program. However, they in no way "run the troop". They enable the Scoutmasters who oversee the program and the PLC who runs the program."

The committee is important to the troop, no question. But, being selective about it's members is equally as important.

firecrafter

Firecrafter,

Just like scouts come to a troop without skills such as knowing how to run a meeting, so do adults. The SM teaches and advises the SPL on how to run a troop meeting, complete with an agenda, and a time limit for each agenda item. If your troop committee meetings are running 3 hours with committee members discussing details on topics that they shouldn't be involved in, one approach is to meet with the Committee Chair between meetings to discuss the problem, and discuss an agenda complete with time limits for each agenda item, and remind the CC that he does have the authority to cap a discussion that is getting off track or running on too long. Also, any committee member can move that a topic be tabled, that a time limit for discussion be set, that the subject be brought to a vote, or raise a point of order that the subject of current discussion is off-topic. All are within the bounds of running a meeting using Roberts Rules of Order (I still remember Roberts Rules training in 4H when I was a youth).

Consider that watching the committee spinning its wheels without working together to keep the meeting moving and on task (even after training), can really help you understand why the scouts have difficulties learning how to function as a patrol. After all, what is a committee but patrol by another name with slightly different objective?

Venividi