Woodbadge as Cult

Woodbadge as a Cult......Makes a lot of sense to me.

found a cult check list......while not all fit, an alarming number do.

1.The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪2. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪3. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪4. The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marryor leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avataror the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪6. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪7. The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪8. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪9. The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪10. Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪11. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪12. The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪15. The most loyal members (the true believers) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

As everyone on this board is aware...... My woodbadge experience was filled with self promoting and self important scouters. It was two weekends filled with stuffed animals and inside jokes. Great fun........NOT.

I would not recommend Woodbadge to the serious scouter. Money would be better spent at the NOLS schools.

I took nothing from the two weeks except for skepticism on BSA training courses and cost.

It is a shame that your WB course did not meet expectations. I'd be angry too, if the descriptions you've posted of your WB course had been the norm for me.

On the other hand, your experience was atypical in many ways, judging from others' posts here. It would be a shame if one bad apple were allowed to ruin the barrel.

Part of the purpose of Wood Badge is to focus on leadership skills, not outdoor skills. As many posters have stated, they have a big beef with that. It should also inspire Scouters and strengthen their commitment to Scouting by sharing in an overall inspirational experience. Now, a well run Wood Badge course doesn't have a singular leader, Wood Badgers vs. non-Wood Badgers mentality, etc. So, while I don't question that fact that you had a bad experience, that bad experience may be due to a poorly run course.

Think of it this way, most high schools and universities support cheer leaders for their athletic teams. Why? To raise school spirit, provide fun and make for a pleasant experience. Does that project cultish behavior in your eyes?

It's very sad that somebody actually feels this way about Wood Badge. I see where he's coming from in a few of the listed items, but it's way off-base. Poorly run course? Poor leadership? Poor promotion? Bad attitude(s)? Could be any number of things, but I see this as very isolated. Could have been anything.

On the other hand ... I just finished reading some of the current LDS postings, and the cult description hits it right on the head. Where someone could point out maybe 3 or 4 items, and say how WB fits, LDS is easily in double digits.

Argue all you want ... it's my opinion, and I doubt it will change. OK, to be more honest, I know it won't change.

BDPT00

Leadership skills are leadership skills, whether taught in a class room or in the outdoors.

I disagree with only 4 or 5 items. I am closer to 10. 2-5, 11-13 for sure and a little of all the rest.

Most unfortunate; particularly #5. Any staff member with that attitude would be out the door in this council, never to return. I hear what you're saying, and I've seen some of it myself. My regrets. I hope you'll give it another look in a different venue.

BDPT00

Point 9

I can think of the win all you can game. That fits.

On #5, of the 3 WBadgers in my unit, 2 do not display it. The 3rd on the other hand, fits it to a tee.

Sorry you had a bad experience with WB, but I really question the checklist generally. Sounds like something produced by an advocacy group with an ax to grind.

With a jaded enough view, most churches, civic groups and sports leagues qualify.

I am a CM so I don't run into too many Woodbadge folks yet. However there are a few in the district at the cub level. Their attitude is 100% "look at me, I did Woodbadge!"

I always thought Cub Scouting was supposed to be about the boys' progress, not yours. Maybe I don't fully understand the program but the attitude of what I've seen has turned me off to it.

The list came off of some mental health website discussing what a cult is.....

Seems to fit.

There are a bunch of great woodbadgers, don't get me wrong.

Gotta run, you will find a bunch of woodbadgers just like that. they are the same staffers that have the staves with all the stuffed animals and irrelevant crap on them.

I have met some really quality individuals who have participated in woodbadge of course I discovered they attended and received their beads inadvertently. they never told me.

I don't think it's unique to Woodbage, it can happen with any aspect of scouting where adults receive awards and patches for stuff they do in the program. There's a line between wearing your uniform with pride and trying to re-live your own glory days as a Cub Scout/Boy Scout. No different than you see on the sidelines of your average youth sporting event.

I'm the type of person who will take every training that's offered if it's useful to me in the role I've agreed to take on--meaning that it will help me deliver a quality program for the boys. A year ago I didn't even know what Woodbage was; I just wondered what the plaid scarves and animal patrol patches were doing on adult uniforms.

So I started to pay attention and heard the term "Woodbadge" and read a lot here. Unlike all the other training sessions that are front and center in scouting, Woodbadge seems to fly under the radar and it's hard to find out about what it is or when it is, despite the attiude exhibited by some Woodbadge completers.

Therefore, even now I'm confused about what it is or whether I would benefit. Do I really need a two-week leadership course to help me become a better leader when we already have position training, outdoor training, Cub Scout college, roundtables, etc. etc.

If so, then why isn't Woodbadge required, like position-specific training will be?

If not, what is the purpose? To go "above and beyond" and "do your best." Ok, I can see that, to a point...but that gets me back to "isn't the program supposed to be about what the boys accomplish, not what I accomplish?"

These are just random musings on the topic. I really don't have an answer.

Basementdweller,

You aren't the only one who had a ROTTEN WB class. Mine was awful too. In my Council its beads that count to get anywhere or do anything. Its a cult-like atmosphere here. The haves run everything and the have nots know nothing.

As I read through the list, I notice some of the points are a bit vague, open to interpretation, and if "a little of all the rest" makes a point count, then Boy Scouting as a whole may be guilty!

1) We hold Baden Powell in fairly high regard.

2) We get irritated when parents or leaders ask "Why is national changing stuff? Why do we have to do things this way?"

3) Reciting the Scout Oath and Law might sound like chanting in unison.

4) Yeah, we tell the kids to obey the oath and law, want them to wear uniforms.

5) Don't we tell kids that to be a scout is to be special?

6) Not too much in the us-vs-them category, inless it's us vs Girl Scouts.

7) I've heard of units that behaved as if they believed they were not accountable.

8) Not so much...

9) Peer pressure? In a "boy-led" group? You bet!

10) Hmmm...sending boys off to summer camp without their parents. Having them camp in the woods, doing service projects may seem like radically altered behavior.

11) Recruit new members? YES!!

12) Unit often running fundraisers to make money? What unit doesn't?

13) I heard of marriages having trouble because of all the time one spouse spends on Scouting.

14) Don't know how many times district complained that our unit wasn't coming to Roundtable nearly enough.

15) Don't we feel the Oath and Law are life-long held values, whether we are in Scouting or not?

Now let me pull my tongue out of my cheek before I choke on it. Obviously, Boy Scouts is not a cult. Order of the Arrow is not a cult. Wood Badge is not a cult. Parents are welcome to attend or view every aspect of the first two programs, and there is nothing about WB that I'm forbidden to discuss in as much detail as I wish, or that my listener will tolerate. Heck, you can download the WB syllabus and read details of both weekends.

You can scrutinize a lot of groups and find members who behave as if they are God's gift to their program. My company forces me to attend United Way fund-raising meetings. Doesn't make them a cult.

Like so many others have expressed, it is unfortunate that your WB experience was less than optimal for you. After I reviewed the syllabus, I discovered my course's Game of Life was run VERY incorrectly! Emotions can run high when it is done right, no telling the damage that can be done when run poorly. But I wouldn't begin to describe it as a "cultish" experience.

But since I have your attention, would you like to buy a flower? Just a small $20 donation, and I'll say a prayer for you over a pile of pretty rocks in my driveway.... :-D

It's sad that your Wood Badge you experienced in your council (wherever it is since you did not fill out your profile) was that poor.

I'm just glad my council's Wood Badge course was not like yours.

For me, Wood Badge opened my eyes and made me really "see" the volunteers in many of council events, without which, would require Scouters serving Packs and Troops to do double duty.

While I have been a Wood Badge participant and staffer, I am not defined by it, no more than I am defined by my Cub or Boy Scouting experiences by themselves.... I think I'm a product, by my choice, of the whole experience.

And when it comes down to it, it's a "choice" to live each day bettered by the day before. No matter if the experience the day before was good or bad.