Need the Rule: Must parent go with boy on all outings?

We were having a planning session for some outdoor activities, and there was a disagreement.

When we travel to a nearby County Park to partisipate in their Jr. Ranger - Nature Program (on a Saturday)is it required that the boy's parent/guardian come along?

Or is it ok to have the boy come along with no parent/guardian so long as there is always two deep leadership?

This will depend on your council and what policies they have in place for Cub Scout camping. Every council decides its own policies for situations like this based on guidelines from National. Check with your council office first.

Depends a little on the age, too. For Tigers, their adult partner should be with them at every event.

Had a really great discussion with the den leaders the other night exploring this topic.

You take a group of scouts to the Park for a trash pick up. there are two adults and ten scouts. One scout gets injured how will you manage the group. You cannot split the group. how long do you expect the other scouts stand around and wait?

Two adults is not enough. in the discussion 4 is the minimum to follow youth protection

guidelines.

West Coast......A lot depends on the scouts. We do it all the time, lots of single moms and grandparents raising boys in our group.

The answer would be no!

Each pack, or den can set their own standards as long as it doesn't weaken BSA's standards. Two deep sets the MINIMUM amout of adult supervison, not the maximum.

A pack, den, district or Council could make the requirements stiffer.

But I notice you said a county park is putting on this Jr Ranger program. So in effect, this is at the least, a county parks and rec function, if not a state run function. Maybe even National parks function?

In that case, the rules set by BSA don't matter, count or have any authorituy. The prk is runnimng the function, the park makes the rules.

But as a den or pack group, you have to follow the minimum set by BSA even if the park does not have any requirements.

For Tiger Cubs, the G2SS is clear. It lists "Tiger Cubs (with Adult Partner)." This leaves no wiggle room. A tiger cub must (not "should") be accompanied by an adult partner on all activities.

Wolves-Webelos is different. But remember that Cub Scouts is intended to be a Family activity. Though I discouraged parents from hanging out at cub scout meetings when the were not involved with an activity, our pack has always required them at all activities/outings. In other words, if it warrants a Tour Permit (any activity outside of the regular meeting place, by our council expectations), then it requires a Cub Scout (including Webelos) be accompanied by an adult. On the Webelos level, we encouraged a "separation" of Scouts and adults. Say on a hike, the adults hung back 25 or so yards, leaving the Webelos with the leaders. Campouts, always required a parent or designated adult (not the leader) to accompany any Webelos.

The Scouting rules would need to be followed even if the park had lesser rules. But the only Scouting rules applicable here are that Tigers are accompanied by their adult partner, and that any outing has to have at least two adults.

Some group may decide to have more restrictive rules - the council, the CO, the pack, the den. But in general, for non-Tigers, the answer to your question is yes, it is ok.

Having two adults on an outing is not "youth protection" in my mind. The youth protection rule is "no one-on-one contact". The two adults are there to back each other up. If they have to split up the group because someone gets injured, they can. If one has to use the restroom, there's another one there. Etc. It depends on the outing, too. At a park I think a couple adults could be plenty. Out camping, you probably desire more.

We have always encouraged adults to come along on Scouting activities. It has been relatively rare for kids not to have their parents along.

I'm of the "parent's should be encouraged to attend" camp because as Buffalo Skipper notes, Cub Scouts is designed to be a family program. However, I don't think you should make attendance by a parent an absolute requirement for a non-Tiger Cub to attend. If you have 1 or 2 parents that can't attend but would hate to see their boy miss out on a fun and educational program, a good Den Leader will figure out a way to make it work so as not to penalize the boy. I can't imagine a quicker way to lose a boy to Cub Scouting than to tell a boy "Sorry, Bobby - you can't come with us to the Jr. Ranger program because your mom or dad won't be there". Obviously, if a couple of parents are using Cubbing as a babysitting opportunity, then you need to speak with those parents, but most of the time, there should be enough flexibility to be able to keep an eye on an "extra" lad. Do you have a Den Chief? If so, he can become the Cub's "Buddy" on the trip (not to be confused with the normal expectation of a Den Chief to be a buddy to all the members of his Den). But it also depends on the type of activity. When I was a Cub (and Den Chief), my Pack always did a winter hike at a nearby forest preserve with a fire after the hike for cooking hot dogs and marshmallows - a parent (preferably Dad if possible) or parentally approved substitute (such as a sibling over 16 (dark ages - I know), grandparent, uncle, etc.) was required to attend because of fire/cooking issues (one year, we all tried the bacon and eggs in a bag trick - surprisingly, it worked). But it makes sense with that kind of activity. Heading off to the local nature center to take part in a Junior Ranger program? I'd be more flexible with that.

You won't find an absolute rule by the BSA on this, other than the G2SS guidelines, because the BSA just doesn't think it's needed.

Calico, is this a BSA put on event, or a parks and rec event that a den/pack is planning on attending?

There is a big difference. For example: Let's say I own a park, some kind of camp ground, or place that scouts would be interested in going to...

If I have a rule saying that all kids must have two parenst present..then that is what stands. Your pack or den has no authority to over ride it, change it or challenge it. Either you follow the requirements I set forth, or you don't get in!

Now, I could be wrong, but the way I read it , this is an event/function put on by a local parks and Rec group...NOT THE BSA or a Pack or den.

You follow the park's requirement or do not attend.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Oak, that's what I meant..The BSA rules will not override the parks, but within the den/ pack, BSA rules must still be followed. BSA may say only two adults are needed overall , but the park can require 1 parent per scout.

Meanwhile, if the park only requires 1 parent per your group, BSA supercedes this on the den/pack level by requiring at least 2 adults: 1 as a registered leader and a parent of one of the scouts , one of who is 21 years old.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

fish.....one more line to your list at least one must be youth protection trained.

Scoutfish,

I've got to say that if I was a Den Leader planning a trip to a junior ranger program and was told by the park that a parent had to accompany each Cub Scout, and I knew that single mom "Julie" wasn't going to be able to make it, I'm not going to bring my Den to that event.

And - I would make it a point to tell every other leader I could get a hold of that this park's program requirements are so unreasonable that Scouts should just avoid it altogether.

But then again, I don't know of many county, state or national parks, or even private nature centers, that would have such a policy.

Calico, no doubt!

I'm not saying I agree with such a strict policy, just saying, that the pack cannot change that policy if it is indeed the park's policy.

I would think the park would understand and allow established groups such as BSA, GSA, Scouters, Jr Range Rancheroos,or any other gruop with reasonable guidlines to just follow their own guidlines .

In reality though,,this is probably park ( and that being under county, state or federal control) rules due to some lawsuit over any function where jr got a scratch on his knee when mom or dad wasn't there.

And you know how it is...What is sadder: That a hair dryer has a warning label saying not to use while in a shower..or the fact somebody did that and that's why the label is there?

Anyway, my point is: If it's a prk rule,it's a park rule and not up to BSA to decide it's validity. Not wether I agree with it.

If it was the policy of the Jr Ranger program that every youth had to have a parent present, I really doubt that WCScouter would be posting his question here. They would simply include that requirement in their planning without any discussion, or disagreement, about it at all. However, he stated that their Pack WAS having a disagreement over requiring a parent with every Scout.

WCScouter - It sounds like this is a day activity only (not part of a Pack overnighter which has different rules). In that case, as others have said, other than for Tigers, there is no BSA requirement that a parent attend the outing with their Scout.

However, as others have also said, Cub Scouts is family oriented. A Jr Ranger program is usually open to everyone. Why would your Pack consider not taking parents?

Unless the park has a restriction on the number of people attending the program (most simply give you a list of requirements to complete on your own), or they are charging a fee, and the Pack is paying it, Why not include the entire family, and make a Pack fun family day of it?

Even if you don't invite the entire family, encouraging a parent to come with their Scout simplifies the whole transportation (and two-deep) issue. If there are some Scouts whose parents can not attend, they can make arrangements for their son to go with one of his buddies and his parent.

A simple permission form for each Scout stating who he is going with is all that you should need.