Winter Camp-out for Cubs

Hello,

I am a Cub Leader in SW Ohio. I've been with my boys for 3 years. Next year we start out trek down the Jr. Webelos trail. I've read some items in this forum about Webelos not being prepared for Boy Scout Camping when they cross. I would really like to make certain that my boys (10 of them) have all the skills they need when they cross over.

In that vein, I'm interested in putting together a Winter Camp-out for them. Unfortunately, I've never even thought about going camping during the winter before, and am just starting to research it.

My boys are all 9 and 10 year olds, so I don't want them to freeze to death either. They might be a little young to be told to "suck it up" like they told us in the Air Force.

Has anyone here ever done a Winter Camp-out for Cubs? If so, what activities were appropriate so they had fun, didn't freeze, and learned something? What type of place should we stay in? I saw another Pack that did a Winter Camp-out in a Yurt that had a heating device.

What gear do they need? Any information, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This Forum has always been so helpful. Thank you in advance.

YIS

Unless your Webelos Winter Camp-out is held in a heated lodge or cabin it is not an allowed activity for Webelos Cub Scouts.

See the Guide to Safe Scouting - Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities :

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf

This is an activity usually reserved for TRAINED Boy Scouts, NOT newbie campers & their parents.

ScoutNut is correct here. Webelos may not winter camp. However, that doesn't mean you can't prepare them. Does your council run any daytime activities in the winter? Ours does a great winter event and it includes day activities for cubs (age-appropriate from Tigers through Webelos). Webelos are also welcome to participate with a troop in the daytime boy scout activities. If your council does anything like this, you may want to inquire into the status of webelos participants. You can also do a variety of den-level outdoor activities during the winter (hikes, winter cook-outs, etc.) where you might want to team up with a patrol from one of your nearby troops.

As for staying warm at night in the winter, while you can't do campouts, you can still have a gear shake down. Invite a couple of older boys from the troop to visit a den meeting and talk about what and how to pack for winter camping. Then have your boys come to the next den meeting with the gear packed that they'd need and have those same boy scouts do a shakedown/inspection (I think this also helps fulfill at least one outdoorsman requirement). It's a good way to give your den's parents a heads up too, so that they can start to buy any needed items in advance and not suddenly have to drop a bunch of money right at cross over.

Have fun!

Lisa'bob

Oops! My older son camped with his future troop at Klondike Derby in January of 2004 when he was in Webelos II. We had all the necessary equipment, he tented with his Dad, and had a great time. Nobody told us we couldn't do this, and obviously I didn't look it up.

I hope my younger son doesn't remember that his brother camped at Klondike when he was still in Webelos!

Quality dry-cold or wet-cold equipment is not inexpensive.

Boys are entering the stage of growth that will take them to manhood physically.

Lots of moderately costly gear (especially personal clothing) will get outgrown and left behind, at a healthy cost to parents.

As ScoutNut and Lisa said, cabins are on-limits; camping in the wild is off-limits for Webelos (and younger Cubs).

I like Lisa's idea; in fact, I would make sure the parents attend these meetings! 4 season gear needs careful selection; too many parents get a sleeping bag that has a pretty box

What is the defininion of a "winter camp". Being a tranplanted northener and having gone winter camping as a Boy Scout,I would not consider taking webelos out in the Northern winter unless I was in a heated cabin. But I live in Georgia now...

Two years ago, we went on a campout in January with the webelos. Before we went we went over cold weather camping procedures, had a shakedown to make sure everyone had enough warmth and the right equipment. We did not want to make cubsicles out of the boys or ourselves. We put togther a pamphlet on cold weather camping and went over it. We worked on readyman and what the symptons and first aid of hypothermia. We instructed the importance of staying dry and having the proper wicking, warmth and windproof clothing. We wanted everyone to be prepared for the weather and for our adventure. For those without really warm sleepping bags, they brought 2 and double bagged them

2 days before the campout the leaders convened , checked the temperature and weather forecast and it was decided that the trip was a go. The actual low at night was 27 and the high during the day was in the 50's. We did some compass, took a hike, but mostly the boys just played and got to know each other(We had three different packs there)

The fire went all day and we had hot chocolate for the scouts and coffee for the adults available at all times. My son still says this was his best campout

This year when we did our precampout conference call. The weather forecast was deemed unsuitable for webelos (rainy, windy and a high of 35) and we went to plan B, which was a 1 night lockin at the local church, On Saturday, they worked on belt loops, activity pins and did some rope work. The boys also had a fun time

As a Den leader I had two winter campouts. We call them "freeze outs" in upstate NY.

The first while the boys were bears.

We ice fished, went sleigh riding and had a ball.

We stayed at Camp rotary in a heated lodge. The place had an outdoor fireplace so a campfire was "required".

We read the "Cremation of Sam Mcgee" by Robert W. Service. More "required" reading.

The Scouts turned in and we dad's hung out at the fire. when I checked on my son he was laying atop his sleeping bag because the lodge was about 75 dgrees.

It was about 3 degrees outside.

Second time we went as webelos, as the last trip before cross over.

It was 55 degrees. no safe ice to fish through. no snow to sleigh ride on.

We cooked in dutch ovens. made a dump cake and some buscuit type apple dumplings. Good eats. Still had an outdoor fire.

No "Cremation of Sam Mcgee" as it was so warm.

Require Dad's or uncles to go and sleep inside a heated lodge and you should be OK.

Take Baloo.

Do a search on "hague maple apple dumplings" and give them a try. This can be an intro to patrol type cooking.

Try a dump cake. Make the boys do the work. borrow some ovens from the local Scout troop.

Ask a couple of Boy Scouts to come and help the boys cook and sleep over.

You got some sleigh riding hills in S. Ohio. I've been to Columbus it is so flat there those kids don't know what a sled is.

Keep it simple make it fun. Good luck.

one thing I forgot.

NEVER,NEVER,NEVER tell a Webelos Scout to suck it up on a camping trip.

Make sure he has the right gear, mittens,warm boots, dry socks and a belly full of hot coccoa.

You could turn a kid off to this type of camping by one bad campout.You can turn a kid off to all camping by one bad trip.

Keep it simple make it fun.

I've been above the Arctic Circle twice in Norway and froze in December in Minnesota. Proper gear fends off a lot of misery.

In the Marines we were taught to look out for our people.

I'm sure the Air Force teaches the same thing.

Living in the south, I too have wondered about the definition of 'winter camping'. We've done some January camping with Webelos, but we've never camped in snow. If you took the definition literally, it would be permissible to camp on December 15th in Wisconsin, but not ok to camp in 80 degrees in Florida in early March. So once again I would put it a big vote for using good judgement.

We've had great fun camping with our Webelos in the cold, but it normally only gets down to the twenties, and we've only taken some pretty experienced and prepared 2nd-year Webelos. If you're prepared, camping in the cold is fine. If you're not prepared, it makes for a miserable experience. You have to judge what would be fun for your boys.

Oak Tree

Webelos may not winter camp.

Nah. Guidelines, people, guidelines. Age appropriate guidelines.

But Believin', they are all correct that winter campin' is not something to be done lightly or without experience. Da guidelines are there for a reason, and are pretty sensible for most kids and programs. In southwest Ohio, I'd say you should find a cabin with a sleddin' hill nearby and a bunch of snow for snowball fights and other mayhem, eh?

If you want to pursue it, get some Boy Scouts to come and demonstrate how to sleep out to your Web 1's, then the next year if they're prepared and have all the gear maybe let them sleep out next to the cabin, with an easy "escape" to a spot in the cabin (and some "midnight checks" by adults or Boy Scouts).

But do this only if the weather is reasonable, eh? (not too cold, no horizontal sleet, etc.).

Might become a nice tradition. Somethin' for da Web 1's to learn and look forward to.

Hopefully leaders would have enough common sense to avoid taking webelos camping (in tents) in really awful weather conditions for which these young kids are not ready. However I've met some leaders for whom common sense is apparently in short supply. Hence, the "guidelines" from the BSA. I surely do not want to suggest to these leaders - or any others for that matter - that the age appropriate GUIDELINES are suggestions only! What's next, the G2SS is only a guide??? Heck, that throws open the barn doors, doesn't it.

I appreciate your view Beavah and I understand where you're coming from, I just don't agree on this matter. I see the "Guide" as a set of rules that BSA expects you to follow, even if you don't particularly like or agree with some parts of it. And at the end of the day if something does go wrong or someone does challenge a unit's practice, I'd rather be on my side of this particular fence than on yours. Others can make whatever decisions they feel comfortable with, I guess. But that's my interpretation.

Lisa'bob

Our Council will not issue tour permits for Cub Scout camps from October 1 through May 1.

Cub Scouts may only camp at Council Approved camp grounds.

One sure way to have a Lad not join Boy Scouts is to take him away to camp and have him spent a weekend where he is cold.

Most (Not all) Cub Scouts do not have the correct sleeping bags and other equipment needed for such an activity.

Most parents will hold off buying expensive equipment until they deem that their son is going to be active in a Troop.

Our Council will not issue permits to Webelos Scout Den Leaders unless they have attended the Webelos Scout Den Leader Outdoor Training.

Eamonn.

All,

Having looked in the text of the G2SS itself and finding nothing as regards winter camping for Cubs,...

But having looked in the age appropriate activities pdf of the Guide and finding Winter camping for Boy Scouts or Venturers...

I would contact my serving DE and ask for an interpretation ... given the location of my own local Council.

Hopefully, they will talk with the health and safety folks and give you good guidance

However I've met some leaders for whom common sense is apparently in short supply. Hence, the "guidelines" from the BSA.

A good citizenship discussion for your youth, eh?

There will always be fools and villians. But is it always necessary to respond to fools and villians with laws that bind everyone? Do we really as a society need disclaimers on every ladder? How much freedom are you willing to sacrifice for trivial gains in security?

In da northern parts of our state and most of our neighboring states, a lot of kids get to school on snowmobiles when it's 20 below out, and a lot of families hunt and therefore have fine cold-weather gear. Should a city kid with a dime-store sleepin' bag go out winter' campin' in da bush? Of course not. Can a rural kid who has da gear and does it all the time anyway? You bet.

The reasons why things are guidelines, even in the G2SS, is that there are people and places that may be different from you, eh? Safety depends on knowledge and alert citizenship, not on regulations. And no rule will ever stop a fool.

I was on the Cub Camping committee when we came up with the rules for Cub Camping in our Council.

That was some years back.

Since then I have heard of units that either knowingly or unknowingly have gone ahead and not followed the rules.

At the end of the day like a lot of things in Scouting it boils down to a matter of honor.

If we as a Council have not done and are not doing a good job of informing people what the rule is? Shame on us.

If they know and choose to ignore the rule? Shame on them.

Eamonn.