Parent crossed the line, I quit the pack

Just here to vent, last month we had our Pinewood Derby (they should remove this activitiy from Cubs) and a parent was not happy. there was a scoring error and her son lost a trophy position due to correcting the error. Well, the next day I was at work (I work at the school the boys go to) and her son yells something at me in the hall that was inappropriate language. I stopped and told him very quietly and calmly that it was not nice, used inappropriate language, and showed a lack of scout spirit. Well his mom called and told me that I was in the wrong and the problems at the derby were my fault then she went to the principal and complained that I "embarrased her son" and shouldn't have spoken to him at school, that I was out of line and should have let the staff at school handle it (which is what I am, staff at school). A monther of another boy in that den told me her son was embarrassed for the first boy and that I obviously didn't know how to deal with children (I work with them every day and am trained) and that I missed 3 events over the course of the year. (Actually I missed 2, one I was sick and the second my motherinlaw was in the hospital out of state).

So, long story short, Principal came to me and said there was a complaint but I did the right thing. I was livid about this group of parents ( now 3 or 4) so I quit, I am not going to let a volunteer position interfer with my work. I am looking for another pack but will not be with one at the school where I work. Rumors are abounding with the pack families and I am rumored to be a very childish person who can't work with children.

Why can't we all just get along and do what is right for the kids? Was I wrong?

Kristi

I don't think you were wrong to quit, since it was interfering with your work. I hope you can find a better pack. Something similar happened at our pw derby. The boy running the computer tracking program didn't understand how it worked and all the scores from the first 4 races were lost. We had to quickly rerun the cars again to come up with a winner. Plenty of parents could have complained, but not one did!

I understand your feelings about the PWD - it does seem to bring out the worst in some parents. That could be another thread in itself :-)

I see many Scout boys in my son's school everyday. I volunteer there and also substitute teach. They know me - they know I'm a den leader - I've run plenty of Pack events - their parents know me. So I think I could discreetly say something to them about not showing Scout spirit and they would take my message to heart. For that matter, if I was just a mom at the school and I heard a child speak inappropriately, I'd have to say something to him.

I believe I agree about leaving the Pack, since you see these kids often. If the parents no longer see you as an authority, it will trickle down to their kids. There's a new Pack out there that needs you and your experience with kids!

JMHO,

clydesdale115

CajunCody, I am sorry that you were the victim of a "hover mother". I was a DL and WDL while my son was in Cubs and I ran the packs PWD.

I heard no end of complaints from the hover mothers as well as the fortress fathers about how their son had been "wronged" during the derby or how come it takes so long, blah, blah, blah.....

Cub Scout leaders who follow the program, get trained, wear the uniform and truly lead the pack are never far out the sights of the parents who never step up and get registered, trained or suited up. Such parents forever seem to second guess the program, actively short change it by selectively deleting or adding what they think should be in the Cub Scout progarm, in short they constitute what can be best refered to as a "Hazard to navigation".

Keep on doing what you're doing, the light at the end of the CS tunnel is Boy Scouting and while it is not a rose garden, it does seem to have better parents involved with it.

Please dont interpret my remarks here as anti-CS, I just feel that I have seen more whacko parents during my tenure as a CS leader than as a Boy Scout leader. Cubbing ran well with positive parental support and involvement is a rare treasure,..too bad what we see more is Cub Scouts who can be more mature than their parents are capable of being.

Kristi - If it had been me, & a boy YELLED inappropriate comments at me in the school, I know I would not have taken the time to talk to him at all. I would have hauled his butt down to the Principle's office for discipline so fast his head would be twirling!

That mother was lucky you decided to simply "embarrass" (?) her son. He could have, & most likely should have, been given detention at the very least.

Find a Pack with decent families & have fun with your son again!

Hoo Boy! Cajuncody, that's just rotten. Sorry you had to deal with such ridiculous parents. I don't blame you for quitting.

Derbies CAN be run well and when they are, they're a great experience for the boys no matter how they place. But, too often, that doesn't happen because of parents like the ones you describe. Sad.

If it makes you feel any better, you aren't alone in suffering from "derby blowback." One thing our pack did in the aftermath of a similar instance (in which, leaders actually came to blows - in front of the boys - about a scoring dispute) was to institute a new trophy - the SPORTSMANSHIP trophy. Not coincidentally, it is bigger than the PWD derby champion's trophy. We had outsiders with no ties to the pack act as judges (UC, local troop members who weren't from our pack or had been gone several years, etc.), so as to avoid claims of favoritism.

Boy, we saw a change in behavior (at least, outward behavior) among THE ADULTS after doing this. The more competitive ones were actually encouraging their children to cheer for other boys, and the parents were on best behavior to avoid possibly costing their own boy this trophy. (We also went over the rules with a fine tooth comb and made extra-sure to give the "it's about the boys" speech to all parents relentlessly, after that. In other words, we aggressively sought to change the pack culture surrounding this event.)

Anyway - I hope for your son's sake that you will locate a new pack nearby and allow him to continue enjoying and benefitting from cub scouts. And may those same, complaining parents, find themselves trying to run the race next year!

Lisa'bob

Please don't interpret this as a negative attack on your person. But a leader with character does not quit when someone of lesser character has an objection. The "winner" of the conflict then becomes whom?

I have to admit to kinda being with FScouter.

But for all the wrong reasons!!

Please excuse my French, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let a pushy Mom (or two) and a little Lad get the better of me.

Call it pride, call it ego, but if I knew I hadn't done anything wrong I'd stay.

I'd meet with the Parents, tell them what they were doing wasn't right, wasn't doing the right thing for their kids.

I'd let them know that I would be willing to accept their apology, however if it wasn't forthcming, I'd let them know that I'm staying. If they were unhappy with that,a list of other packs in the area is available and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Eamonn.

cajuncody,

Pinewood Derby is a long tradition in Cubs, but there is no requirement for a leader to be involved with it. I sympathize with your feelings. Stay with Cubs, but step back from the Derby. Pinewood Derby should be FUN while teaching the elements of fair play and good sportmanship. Sadly, there are too many DADS or MOMS building these cars for their sons and they take it way too seriously. It's not the kids that ruin it, it's the parents. The Core Values that should be taught in Cubs are often lost and forgotten in the Derby.

A Pinewood Derby Trophy's Lament

I sit here all bright and gleaming

As the boys laugh and play

And the parents connive and scheming

Who will take me home today

Little Johnny has one ugly ride

Made it all by myself he says

Every race, its on the losing side

Who will take me home today

Big Red looks like a brick

Its wheels wobble and sway

Someone must not have shared the trick

Who will take me home today

In the corner, men talk about thrust

To the bitter end they will stay

Underneath a cloud of graphite dust

Who will take me home today

Oh uh, a little mixup on the line

Sleek Blue was in the wrong lane

But Dad is there, to make sure all's fine

Who will take me home today

Sleek Blue wins with a great roar

Its scout had to leave, couldn't stay

But Dad is here, watching the score

Who will take me home today

Dad jumps on the victory stand

Knocking second and third out of the way

He clutches me so tight in his hand

I guess he takes me home today

Aglow, he takes me for a victory lap

All around the room we stray

Beaming over all the losing saps

Oh please don't take me home today

Wishing all better luck next year

Dad heads out after a long delay

Leaving behind a room of tears

Oh please don't take me home today

In the car, he wipes off my smudge

And gently places me beside in the tray

Checking to make sure I don't budge

Oh please don't take me home today

He tells me how great we are

At every stop, I catch his loving gaze

'But just wait until next year's car'

Oh please don't take me home today

Brushing aside a second place plaque

Dad gently places me in a glass display

'Next year we'll cut them no slack'

As he turns and walks away

I guess I am now home today

cajuncody, I am sorry that you have been treated this way by people that value a piece of plastic more than a fellow human being. Please accept this lament as a small token of scouting fellowship.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties Krisi. I hope things shape up soon.

One of the hardest things about being a leader is dealing with the parents. As Barry recently reminded me on this forum, it's one of the most important jobs of the unit leader. Our unit has suffered recently because I and some others had not been paying enough attention to it. It's something we all need to remember.

As for PWD, it does sometimes bring out the worst in parents. We emphasize the importance of good sportsmanship before the PWD and remind parents that it is for fun. I've only had a few problems in the past 8 years of PWDs. We went to a round-robin scoring system during my second year as Cubmaster. It still has the competitive feel, but doesn't have a lot of the shortcomings of double-elimination (not sure which method you used). We also show the scoring up on a computer screen so that mistakes are caught as they happen.

Good luck, and hang in there.

cajuncody,

truly sorry the turkeys got you down...Having followed your posts from the beginning I know how much work you put into the program...I can't help but to agree with FScouter (got to work on that...it could be habit forming ;>)...If you leave...the turkeys win...and It'll be the boys who lose...I will not say - stay...but if the opportunity presents...you might reconsider...for the boys...(?)

As to crap in the (school) work place...my wife is an elementary teacher (32 years) and has had it all thrown at her...incuding being "cursed out" by a preachers daughter...just continue to follow the set proceedures for handling "maturity challenged" individuals and you can't go wrong...in any event good luck to you.

And thank you for what you have done for scouting.

Anarchist

I know that some of you would choose to stay but the thing is I am trying to get a "better" position with the school than my current one and it doesn't look good to have complaints (no matter how insane) during that process. In the pack this small group of parents is the committee that I recruited ( go figure) and things have been going down hill anyway. They changed the blue and gold and didn't tell me till the day of it and then complained that I was late. My son has seen the "bigger" and "better" packs and has been talking about things that they do that our pack committee and parents say are too far to drive to so I think he will be happier there.

Also, what pack wouldn't want a scout or two and a fully trained woodbadger (on that final ticket item), day camp director trained adult volunteer?

I don't want to be rude or anything like that, but now it sounds like you were looking for a reason to leave.

Eamonn

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, other than I'd feel that "They" had won!!

Boy, do I resonate with this one. As a CM for a small Pack (when I "retired" to follow my son into Scouts, one father SERIOUSLY offered to PAY me to stay on as CM), I found three main kinds of parents: the Scout parents (encourager), the my son right or wrong parent (and mostly I was wrong) and the take my son and I'll come back later parent ( I call this the "Soccer Syndrome"). I (and my wife, who was the CCh), did our best (where have I heard that before?) to work the program and had some small success.

PWD was very popular, drew the most boys (used it as a recruiting tool at school) and did have some societal difficulties, but nothing like cajuncody describes. HOWEVER...

I found that when a boy ( or parent) presented a problem we would try to present it generally, with a CM Minute at the Pack closing.("Once there was a boy..." or even an Aesop fable, where ever I found inspiration) Sometimes, the parent would come up later and ask, "were you speaking about me (or "Johnny?")"? And I would pray a little and then ask "do you think I was?" and perhaps we would have a friendly conversation. I never had a bad outcome, maybe a neutral one, sometimes a good one.

As has been said in many other threads in this forum, we Scouters really have no business sticking our nose in the family dynamics (unless we see some evidence of real abuse. Another topic, another time), so our responsibility is to the Scout program. As an archery range safety officer, I have been chastised by a parent for being too strict and thanked heartily for being strict. I tell the boys at the beginning, the range rules are for their safety and my peace of mind. At the end of the week, I say that if I yelled at them, if I made them sit down and wait, if I insisted they follow the rules, it was because I loved them and wanted them to go home safe and unhurt, and come back next time to shoot some more arrows. As Bob the Tomato says, "it's for the kids". Cajuncody, it's for the kids, not the parents, yes? Listen to your principal. YiS.