Leadership Jealousy

Figure this is an issue that has political spins to it. But if it's not the right forum, please point the way!

It's only been a 3 weeks since my Boy and I joined the Cub Scouts. I've heard the stories and read on-line that a common issue in Scouting there is never enough volunteers. So when asked I gladly volunteered to be a Tiger Cub Den Leader. (I've got my Trained strip Monday.)

Come to find out that the Assistant Den Leader wanted the "Top position. This wasn't just a "Hey, I wanted that position!", but passive agressive, "Hey, I wanted that position!"

Little background on me before the problem. I believe in what the BSA has to offer. I'm a single Dad who wants to raise my Son with the best tools available and be very much involved in the process. It's an organization that I sincerely believe in. But there seems to be some fundamental differences regarding the parties involved on the core of

what BSA is about and how it should be presented. Some like it slow

and easy while others like the more fast pace approach. With both

types in the same organization there has to be a middle ground. This

is why I believe in sticking to what is taught in training and the

books is crucial. It provides that very pathway to ensuring that

middle ground is there. Yes, deviations need to be made to fit the

circumstances. But the core shouldn't be compromised for the sake of

appeasement.

The Pack Leadership is very liberal to what it takes from the training and the books. As the PCC but it, "They're just guidelines ..." And the both Unit and District lean more to my way of thinking. This isn't the real issue.

The whole passive agressive with the ADL thing came up after I suggested that we have the Boys take part in the Code of Conduct exercise. In general the parents weren't opposed when I explain it as akin to kids with forts or part of a club. It allows them to take a stake and ownership to being part of the den. Basic team building 101 and chapter 16 of the leadership handbook. As you guess it, except for the ADL. I can't put into words her arguement because the reasoning is confusing at best. It blew up after I made a positive comment to one of the other parents who made suggestions about the CoC. She went to the PCM which was on the same day that I was at training for the CS to oppose this exercise. Do I need to say how that turned out?

The UC is suggesting that maybe I should be a ACM instead. My concern here is not with the position changes but rather if the Boys will get a quality program, or just another hour of Arts and Crafts.

Am I off my rocker on this?

I moved this here as there are some forum members who forego reading the Issues and Politics threads and it seems you need real life experience help from those who may have lived the same problem

Robert,

Welcome to the forums. I hope you find the information and encouragement you need. I've read your post a copule of times. I'm struggling to understand all of it, perhaps it's some of the acronyms getting in the way (eg. PCM = Pack Cubmaster or Pack Committee Meeting?). FYI, we typically use the official abbreviations (CM=Cubmaster, CC=Committee Chairman, etc.). Things like "Committee meeting" should be spelled out.

It sounds like you want to do the right thing. It seems you've been trained and are trying to put together a quality program. I'm struggling with what exactly the pack leadership is doing to get in the way. I didn't understand the "they're just guidelines" issue. And, what exactly is this ADL doing?

By the way, the Code of Conduct activity is a great activity for the first den meeting of the year. We did it as Tigers, Wolves and Bears, just to remind them how they were to act in meetings.

I've struggled with "jealous leader" thing in the past. And, I'm sure I'll run up against it again. So, I'll be happy to share any insights once I understand the issues better.

Assistant Cubmaster - CA

Assistant Den Leader - DA

Several of the "official" abbreviations can be found on the inside cover page of the adult leader application. I think they came about from the olden days when storage space in computer systems was very expensive. A two-character code was adopted. 3 characters might have been better, but 3 is a lot more storage space than 2.

Just a point of reference here. There is no Assistant Tiger Cub Den Leader position. For Tiger Cub dens, there is the Tiger Cub Den Leader and an adult parner for each tiger cub.

So what position did your "Assistant" register for?

SWScouter

The stock reply would be to talk to her. But that doesn't sound like its going to get you far. But it is a required step.

Stick to your guns. If you show up prepared to every meeting, demonstarte good organization skills and sound planning the parents will be right there with you.

How about co-leaders for the den? Nothing says you can't both be registered as Den Leaders and work as a team.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

When I was a cubmaster I only had a couple of times when conflicts arose, not exactly like this one though. In each case I met with the adults as a group (I think one time was a committee meeting) and explained that the pack existed for the boys. The leadership existed for the boys. The unit needed to run as team and that although we, as individuals, might have strong opinions and disagree with each other, we had to be willing to compromise to remain the team we needed to be...for the boys.

I don't know, either my logic, dumb luck, or the threat of having to sit through another one of my lectures caused them to work together. At any rate, we had a pretty good pack and I had a great time working with the boys.

Now that I think about it, the conflicts both involved only women - not that I think that was a factor, no siree.

Thanks for the assistance OldGreyEyes, and everyone else on this forum.

What I meant by the Pack Leadership stating that the Leader books were just guides, was in the frame of mind that "you can pick and choice what you want and then reinterpret to your liking."

As far as the "pseudo" ADL, the behaviour boils down to undermining. As I was at training, ADL went to the Pack Committee Meeting for the sole purpose to object the Code of Conduct exercise. The District Chair and Unit Commissioner were in attendance, they came away not knowing what the real issue was when I asked.

There's a half-day training scheduled tomorrow and maybe this will help. But as many of you are aware, this is an intro, and the books are meant to be read and used accordingly. So the answer is of course, time.

Now another question to consider. I've been asked if I would like to take the position of assistant Cubmaster. Thoughts?

I sincerely apologize for the misuse of the acronyms. Re-reading through the post again when I realize my mistake. Thanks for pointing out the Adult Application for reference. It's now part of my monitor!

Hi Robert,

Welcome to the forums.

Have to admit to finding your post a little hard to follow.

Most of the time packs have a hard time finding willing parents to step up to the plate. To have people who both want to step up is a position that I know many Pack Committees would love to have to face.

A couple of things come to my mind:

What position were you asked to take on when you were selected to be a leader?

I during my term as a Cubmaster never ever signed on a leader as an Assistant Den Leader. Only because a Assistant Den Leader didn't receive the program pages that are in the middle of Scouting Magazine.

I have been out of the day to day running of Cub Scouting for a number of years. However back in the day.... With the Tiger Cub Den, there was one Den Leader. He or she worked with the Adult Partners of the Tiger Cubs. These Adult Partners took the responsibility of running the activity for a month of Den meetings.As I say I have been out of this program for a while, still I wonder if the Code of Conduct exercise might be a little too advanced for this age group? Especially this early in the year?

While I am pleased that you are going ahead and getting the training's.There is such a thing as the "Training High". Very often those coming back from training want to change the world. Which at times is a good thing. They do however need to slow down a little, and not try to change everything all at once. I would hope that everyone involved in the pack is doing their best to help the Cub Scouts do their best. At times there are a few rough edges, which over times can be fixed, to go in and try to change things all at once can rub people up the wrong way and can cause them to quit the program. We end up with rough edges and a big hole.

While you will do what is for the best. Best for your Son, best for you and best for the pack. If I were in your shoes I would slow down a little and enjoy being the Adult Partner to my son through the Tiger Cub program. Working with him, the other Tiger Cubs and their Adult Partners, will prove to be very rewarding and working along side these other adults will pay dividends for the pack in the years to come, as they too like you will get bitten by the Scouting Bug.

Eamonn

Eamonn, your points are well taken.

Somethings have changed like the Tigers are now part of the Cub Scouts ranks, wearing the blue shirts and earning the Tiger Badge.

If experience states one thing, and "newbies" state another. What then?

"If experience states one thing, and "newbies" state another. What then?"

Follow the ones that follow the BSA program.

You did not sign on to deliver somebody else's version of scouting. You signed on to deliver the BSA's program, right?

robertv36 - You said "... I believe in sticking to what is taught in training and the

books is crucial." You're on the right track. After almost 100 years, BSA has figured out a few things

robertv36, You have some good advice here already. I am an assistant scoutmaster. As I pick up more knowledge of the program (some of it in these forums) I do not hesitate to bring it to the attention of the other leadership. Even if it goes against the opinion of others, if I do this constructively, they tend to listen and, most of the time, incorporate my input. Most people are susceptible to reason if it is given to them in a palatable manner. I say take the position.