SCOUTER Forums Uniforms When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option"

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Author Topic: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" - Read 0 times. Eagle92 Senior Forum Member Registered: 8/13/2008 Location: NC Posts: 1836 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 9:08:48 AM     quality I've been thinking and thinking on this topic for sometime now. As most of you know, I'm big on uniforming and think it's important. But I've noticed that you are seeing more and more folks with incomplete uniforms. Look at some of the pictures on Scoutstuff.org's Facebook page,and BSA's pictures and you see lots of incomplete uniforms, without any attempt to find something similar. Now I know some folks don't have the finanical resources to buy new uniforms, I was one of those scouts growing up, but there were thrift stores for a bunch of stuff. Now I know pants would be harder to find, a lot of folks would cut them into shorts once they got damaged at the knees, but in my old troop an attempt to be uniformed was expected and yes you did have a few scouts like myself wearing army surplus pants in an attempt to be uniform. But I am seeing folks wearing jeans to their ECOHs, and my council has even put out info stating that uniform pants are dependant upon the units. So when did you folks notice the decline of uniforming? admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread jblake47 Senior Forum Member Registered: 6/1/2006 Location:  Posts: 2038 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 10:04:06 AM     quality The minute BSA said a uniform was optional. Stosh admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread SR540Beaver Senior Forum Member Registered: 10/1/2002 Location:  Posts: 3366 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 10:28:29 AM     quality We could say that all elements of the program are "optional", but is that the way we really want to do things? Each method serves a purpose in reaching the aims and it is helpful to employee each. admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread Kahuna Senior Forum Member Registered: 3/29/2005 Location:  Posts: 963 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 10:43:18 AM     quality In old pictures of Scout activities from 1910 on, you see a lot of mixed uniforms (although probably not as many as today). In those days, it was more likely to be a matter of money, but they didn't hesitate to wear the official shirt and neckerchief with non-Scout pants. admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread Eagle92 Senior Forum Member Registered: 8/13/2008 Location: NC Posts: 1836 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 11:08:14 AM     quality Kahuna, While I have noticed some of the old photos, I've also noticed an attempt at uniformity, i.e. wearing military uniform pants and leggings. Now when I worked supply division, it was in a town that about 1/3-1/2 of the youth population was in private school where uniforms were the norm. Several schools wore blue uniform pants that very closely matched the CS pants. So I could understand the packs chartered by those schools to be ok with the school uniform pants. But jeans? admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread shortridge Senior Forum Member Registered: 2/16/2008 Location: Delaware Posts: 1191 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 11:08:28 AM     quality During all of my time in Cubs (late 80s) and most of my time in Boy Scouts (1990-), I can't remember many Scouts who owned the pants or shorts. Only the adults did. My first troop did have a very high degree of uniform pride, though, as we wore the red berets. They were sharp in a way the ballcaps won't ever look, and most people liked them. (Anti-beret flames will be cheerfully ignored! ) I didn't get my first completely full uniform until I started working on camp staff. I think it would have been different had the older Scouts in the troop, the ones we looked up to, emphasized the uniform. But they didn't bust anyone's chops. When we had kids showing up for late-fall campouts with jeans and blankets thrown in a plastic trash bag, there were bigger fish to fry. admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread BadenP Senior Forum Member Registered: 6/13/2004 Location:  Posts: 950 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 12:01:08 PM     quality In my district I don't know of one troop that is ever in complete uniform, almost all of them wear jeans with the shirt, and I have only seen a small handful wearing the new uniform, most of them adults. In district events many scouts wear a troop tshirt and jeans or shorts. So shortridge you wore the red beret, now I see why you and OGE have so much in common, lol. admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread boomerscout Senior Forum Member Registered: 1/29/2009 Location:  Posts: 192 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 12:40:20 PM     quality When the economy moved to China and the housing market burst. P.S. I have just been to five different thrift stores. Not a uniform or part thereof to be found admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread OldGreyEagle Senior Forum Member * Registered: 9/3/2000 Location:  Posts: 7560 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 12:57:36 PM     quality Not everyone has the panache and joie de vivre to wear and be comfortable in a Red Beret, those of us who do are presecuted by some others but it detracts not from our being. When I was a scout, after Brownsea Island but before the demise of the aforementioned and beloved Red Berets (Actually mid to late 60's) a full uniform was pretty much the rule at all the troop events and at District Activities. A few youth would try to wear jeans or other non-uniform dungarees and would be chastised by the adults. Adults who were generally WWII or Korean War vets who placed a good deal of emphasis on the uniform. As time as gone on, and those Vets were replaced by Children of the 60's. 70's et al, we see a change in the emphasis of clothing. The world series is being played this week, take a look at the dress of the fans in the stands. Compare them to films you see of baseball fans attending games in the 50's and 60's. White short sleeve shirts with ties will not be an uncommon site in those images. Perhaps a derby or a fedora as well with a "sport" coat. Will you see anyone in a tie in the stands today? Generally no, you don't unless its a team owner or high level exec, not on the common fan. The dress of the youth reflects the values of society, we are a much less formal society and this is reflected in our dress, why wouldnt this carry over to scouts? If set as an expectation then the youth comply as we have seen by examples on this forum. But generally it is not an expectation set by the unit OK Ok OK baseball uniforms are still worn, football uniforms, Band uniforms, etc, they are all worn but because its required. Perhaps when people start sitting in bleachers to watch a Troop Meeting, the uniform will make a comeback, until then? not sure admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread eaglescout1996 Junior Forum Member Registered: 5/18/2008 Location:  Posts: 30 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 1:27:10 PM     quality Going around doing my unit visits as a UC, in the last month I've noticed an increase in the wearing of a "full" uniform (shirt and pants). I reallly think it has to do with the blowout sales that Supply has been having on the old uniform parts. Most of the boys I've been seeing are wearing the old switchbacks, and although folks have complained about the flaws, parents have been buying them for their scouts at $10. I myself picked up a couple pair, and never having owned a pair before, think that they're ok (except for the belt). One of the packs I serve, like Eagle92 mentioned, are chartered by a private school. At the last pack meeting, the CM gave a quick "talk" about proper uniforming, and mentioned that he knew the pants were expensive, but a good substitution were the navy school pants. He also went over the proper wearing of the neckerchief, to include the under collar and tuck under and wear over style. Although they don't have a set way the pack wears them, they want everyone to participate. As for the new uniform, the only people I've seen wear them besides boys brand new to scouting, are the district and council type volunteers. The professional staff in our council doesn't even wear them, and that's including the folks who work at the Scout Shops. admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread eghiglie Senior Forum Member Registered: 7/4/2006 Location:  Posts: 297 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 1:45:53 PM     quality When the BSA said they were optional gets out to the public. The cost and comfort for a long time is an issue. The other thing driving parents nuts is the cost of getting the patches attached. My 2 cents: Regardless of what they wear on the outside its how the boys lives to the Oath and Law that matters more. I've seen rich kids with all the uniform parts be trouble makers. admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread shortridge Senior Forum Member Registered: 2/16/2008 Location: Delaware Posts: 1191 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 3:30:20 PM     quality I have been into thrift-shopping for quite a while now, in three different states, and I have never seen a uniform piece for sale, in any size. Maybe that's a good thing - units are recycling them internally - but it means that the old "stop by Goodwill" advice doesn't really hold water for my local audience. EBay, on the other hand, presents many more options. admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread jblake47 Senior Forum Member Registered: 6/1/2006 Location:  Posts: 2038 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 6:08:22 PM     quality When I was a youth scout, both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts we all wore full uniforms with belts hat (blue w/yellow stripes, and garrison cap) and socks. Stosh (This message has been edited by jblake47) admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread Beavah Senior Forum Member Registered: 6/11/2005 Location:  Posts: 4014 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 7:03:33 PM     quality Yah, we Americans are funny fellows sometimes, eh? By and large, informal uniform wear is the way of the world in Scouting. Most scout associations in most countries have a much less formal uniform than us (often only a shirt), and generally one better suited for the field. In fact, in many cases the only uniform in practice for many scouts worldwide is wearin' the (properly sized, not U.S.-style) necker. It's funny that that's a uniform part we made optional. Of course you'll see decent uniforms on da few scouts selected to participate in some international event or show or such (except in Germany, where da notion of kids in brown shirts is still mostly taboo ). Just like we dress boys up for Jambo or COHs and such. The exception, of course, is scouts from nations that are dictatorships or movements that are militaristic (like Hamas scouts in Lebanon). Those are da kinds of scouting programs that emphasize strict uniformin' military-style. I think the American trend reflects that international truism, eh? Our boys and families consciously or subconsciously choose da sort of uniformin' that corresponds to the scoutin' they want to be associated with. OGE's right, da world is just less formal than it was. It's really only in troops associated with da military or ex-military leaders that yeh tend to see really strict uniformin' in da U.S. Sometimes that really works well, and there's real esprit de corps and some fun with it, eh? But I gotta be honest, sometimes it's just fellows that make better drill sergeants than youth leaders. As a commish, I've seen my share of lousy, full-uniformed units where the other methods were misunderstood or neglected in da quest for spit-and-polish. Too much adult ego gets wrapped up in da uniform sometimes. So I tend to take 'em as they come. I'm just happy if the lads feel a strong enough identity with Scouting to be willin' to wear scouting paraphernalia of any sort (dare I say "tags"?) in public, which is the sort of esprit de corps the uniform method envisions. Lots of "full uniform" troops don't ever get there, but some "Class B" troops do. Do I wish it were better? Yah. But that's probably a sign that I'm just an old fellow who might have appeared in one of da movies OGE mentioned. Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah) admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread John-in-KC Senior Forum Member Registered: 3/16/2004 Location: Suburban Kansas City Posts: 5432 View member's profile Send Private Message Ignore this user RE: When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option" Posted: Thursday, 10/29/2009: 9:42:09 PM     quality At least 1958, when my brother was a Cub Scout and his Pack in Abilene Ks set a standard of blue jeans for uniform pants. Of course, the years of the POS de la Renta uniform, with poor quality, fit, and finish did not help any. Don't get me started on the field useless red beret... admin | IP: Logged spin-off new thread

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