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  • #76
    Originally posted by Twocubdad View Post
    The deal breaker here is bringing the weed to summer camp and offering it to other Scouts. That's a deal breaker. He'd be out of the troop. You need to consider the other Scouts and the trust their parents place in you.
    Yeah, I've seen a similar ... not the same, but similar ... situations too. Of course the specifics affect the decision, but I strongly lean toward your view. How can I maintain the trust of other parents? How many parents will send their kid off for the weekend with relatively little supervision with a scout that brought and offered pot to other scouts? It's not just a matter of trust between myself and the offending scout. It's a matter of trust with everyone in the troop and their families.

    But the specifics and the individual scout would affect the decision.

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    • #77
      The other scouts and their parents deserve to know. If found out that the pack leaders knew a scout had attempted to give drugs to other scouts and allowed him to stay in the troop, I could never trust them with my son again. GeorgiaMom

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      • #78
        I don't have much to add, having no children myself, my first impulse is giving the Scout a second chance. Part of that is dependent on the individual Scout. The more I read the posts of Parents here, I realized that the interest of the troop, and the trust that parents must place in the Troop, far outweighs the rehabilitation Scouting might be able to do for the Scout in question.

        I do not agree with posts that advocate giving him Eagle anyways. Rank Advancement is not an end to itself. it does not exist in a vacuum outside the program. The Scout committed a crime, while with the Troop. Unlike many youth activities, Scouting has an explicit goal to help Scouts learn good character and be a good citizen. Without being there I can't say what I would do, but I feel like their is a disconnect between being a Character building organization, and granting a Scout who just tried to give weed to another Scout his Eagle. Perhaps time heals all wounds? I don't know, it's a tough situation.

        Sentinel947

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        • #79
          Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
          Let me clarify, from a health and safety viewpoint I would be more concerned if it were alcohol, not legal. If one still subscribes to the "Reefer Madness" hysteria no one is going to change your mind but in reality one is much more likely to be a danger to themselves or others under the influence of alcohol than marijuana. This kid screwed up and it is ultimately up to the CO and Council how they want to deal with it. More importantly how this Scout deals with this setback will be the true test of how Scouting has influenced his character.

          You are entitled to your own view for your own children about "reefer madness", alcohol, etc. No other adult or scout has any business making this judgment call on behalf of my child.

          In addition, my son is autistic. We've spent a lot of time and money on testing, therapy, and medications. We are exploring changes in diet and vitamin supplements to help with possible deficiencies.

          Many think it's not a coincidence that autism rates have tripled since Monsanto introduced roundup resistant GMO corn and soy 15 years ago, along with so many other untested chemicals in our food.

          I will be spending several hours today making my own yogurt, breads, and going to the farm to get my fresh dairy and produce. I just picked up $150 worth of supplements yesterday. Then, we're off to speech therapy.

          Now ask me how much I appreciate a 15 year old giving my son weed behind my back with the knowledge of an sm who has decided in his own infinite wisdom ​that " reefer madness" is "no big deal".

          Everything is a big deal when your child is failing in school and you're trying everything you can thing of to fix it. I was told that scouting can be great therapy for autistic kids. Please don't let the PC drug culture ruin that.

          You can't dispute that weed is psychoactive. You can't possibly know what medications other scouts might be taking for medical reasons, or how THC might interact with those meds. This is a one strike offense. SM's should not have discretionary power to expose my child to this once they are aware of it.

          GeorgiaMom
          Last edited by GeorgiaMom; 07-14-2014, 08:30 AM.

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          • #80
            I think you failed to understand my point. I never said "no big deal" those are your words, not mine. Alcohol violations are generally given a pass in this society unless it involves a motor vehicle. Alcohol is much more likely to kill especially when considering interactions with other substances. I also never said anything about keeping this information from the rest of the troop. That would be nearly impossible anyway. Your points are valid, but don't put words in my mouth.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
              I think you failed to understand my point. I never said "no big deal" those are your words, not mine. Alcohol violations are generally given a pass in this society unless it involves a motor vehicle. Alcohol is much more likely to kill especially when considering interactions with other substances. I also never said anything about keeping this information from the rest of the troop. That would be nearly impossible anyway. Your points are valid, but don't put words in my mouth.
              I apologize if I mischaracterized you. Statements like "reefer madness hysteria" downplay the damage done by THC. GeorgiaMom

              Comment


              • #82
                Sentinel947 ... Tough situation - I agree.


                It is strange, but I do have more sympathy for rank advancement than for membership. I fully believe scouts "earn" advancement. So if the scout can make amends for his action, I'm okay with it. Advancement is not the goal of scouting, but it is something scouts value. So I have sympathy there ... after he makes amends.

                Plus pot is just not that big a deal anymore. Many kids have tried it. It's everywhere at high schools and somewhat in middle schools. So I sort of view this as a "whoops" depending on the kid and the situation. Him and his family and the courts will work it out. I'll let him continue his advancement journey if he wants ... after closes out the issue.


                As for membership, I'm very utilitarian. Troops have to recruit or they die. And, families want their troops to be a place of safety and innocence for their sons. A kid dealing with an in-the-troop drug incident is a big big issue for membership.


                That's why my priorities are inverted and it might seem strange for people to believe that. Plus, who knows. The scout will be going through tough issues. Perhaps by working together on those last few advancement steps during this critical time we can talk about character issues and choices and maybe scouting can be a safe haven for him for a few months longer.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
                  .... Now ask me how much I appreciate a 15 year old giving my son weed behind my back with the knowledge of an sm who has decided in his own infinite wisdom ​that " reefer madness" is "no big deal". You can't dispute that weed is Everything is a big deal when your child is failing in school and you're trying everything you can thing of to fix it. I was told that scouting can be great therapy for autistic kids. Please don't let the PC drug culture ruin that. ..... SM's should not have discretionary power to expose my child to this once they are aware of it.
                  I couldn't agree with you more, except for one thing: it could just as easily turn out that our sons are the perpetrators. So all of us best only withhold forgiveness to the degree we won't need any ourselves.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    With drugs floating around at school, in churches, at the Boy & Girls Clubs, at the mall, at the YMCA, and just about every other place a kid hangs out, when we see an incident like this in Scouting we get all Chicken Little about it. Somewhere along the way we have latched onto the uber sensitive idea that BSA is exempt from the normal course of life out there and this idealized program is the miracle cure-all for their son's ills. Sorry to have to inform everyone, but Scouting is the means to get the boys ready for a life that has these things all around them and they are going to have to learn to live with it with appropriate choices.

                    If one want their sons to be exempt from any and all of these issues, they will need to institutionalize them, because these things are out there in the real world. Of course institutionalizing them isn't going to solve this problem either.

                    So what's the issue here? A boy got caught selling pot? Or there are drugs out there so prevalent that even at a scouting event your son is going to have to face real life choices every day? How many of the scouts got and smoked some of this boy's merchandize that the SM never found out about? Getting caught is usually only the tip of the iceberg. Now there's a thought that will keep Chicken Little up all night worrying about.

                    Stosh

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                    • #85
                      Jblake, you seem to have forgotten your scout spirit. "Institutionalize" is a harsh word to throw out to parents dealing with very real medical problems in their children.

                      I do worry about my autistic son. I worry about the physical bullying he's already run into in elementary school. I worry about drugs and God knows what else in middle and high school. He is the sweetest little boy. No trouble at all in scouts or school, just vulnerable due to a medical condition he can't help.

                      I wish scouts would make up their minds. Some tout the program as a safe haven for disabled kids to grow, where a higher standard off behavior is taught and expected. Others, like jblake, say it's a real world environment where drug dealers are a normal part of life.

                      If an adult sold or gave illegal drugs to a child, he would be in jail. Why should a minor get a free pass? Is the scout in the op such an innocent that he didn't know drugs were illegal?

                      If the scouts aren't committed to teaching and expecting a higher standard of behavior than the local public school of ymca, then why does it even exist? For the pretty uniforms and overpriced camps?

                      GeorgiaMom

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
                        Jblake, you seem to have forgotten your scout spirit. "Institutionalize" is a harsh word to throw out to parents dealing with very real medical problems in their children.
                        Not really, how far would one have to go to isolate one's child from the world? Unless one is planning on locking their children up in their house somewhere, I don't know of anything other than institutions that can come close to protecting people from the outside world and protecting the outside world from certain people.

                        Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
                        I do worry about my autistic son. I worry about the physical bullying he's already run into in elementary school. I worry about drugs and God knows what else in middle and high school. He is the sweetest little boy. No trouble at all in scouts or school, just vulnerable due to a medical condition he can't help.
                        As would any parent. No one who has kids owns the ultimate concern over their children as a parent. I would seriously doubt any parent out there that has a child with the intent of having them grow up to be a serial killer.

                        Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
                        I wish scouts would make up their minds. Some tout the program as a safe haven for disabled kids to grow, where a higher standard off behavior is taught and expected. Others, like jblake, say it's a real world environment where drug dealers are a normal part of life.
                        My formative years were in the 1960's. I think it is reasonable to assume that I have spent my life in a drug cultured society and for the past 50 years it has gotten progressively worse.

                        Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
                        If an adult sold or gave illegal drugs to a child, he would be in jail. Why should a minor get a free pass? Is the scout in the op such an innocent that he didn't know drugs were illegal?
                        And kids today know enough that in some states one can walk into a store and purchase pot with no hassle whatsoever. We live in a
                        society of double standards. That's yet another lesson our children should learn as well.

                        Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
                        If the scouts aren't committed to teaching and expecting a higher standard of behavior than the local public school of ymca, then why does it even exist? For the pretty uniforms and overpriced camps?

                        GeorgiaMom
                        Yes and also for moral character development, leadership development, and a few other things that the other programs don't really teach. And for the most part, a lot of parents don't either. The more BSA buckles under to societal pressure to conform, the more it will become what our society is: the real world that one grows up in and basically doesn't understand very well until they get well into adulthood. Good luck in guiding your child through that gauntlet.

                        Stosh

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
                          Jblake, you seem to have forgotten your scout spirit. "Institutionalize" is a harsh word to throw out to parents dealing with very real medical problems in their children.
                          Rhetoric can be rough sometimes. Let's substitute "build a hedge around" and move on from there OK?

                          I wish I could say there was a way we could slap one bad actor so hard, that it will discourage the other ones.
                          I wish I could say that there was at least one neighborhood where you could go and be free of this stuff. The now-deceased director of our county health department gave a lecture that disavowed me of all such notions.
                          I wish I could say that homes where some particular scripture is upheld raise kids who are immune to all of this, that if you see such a home, their kids would be the best match for your kids.

                          I've seen shock and disappointment in too many friends to believe any of that constitutes a hedge.

                          Should we hold scouts to a higher standard?
                          Yes.

                          Should we let thugs know they aren't welcome in our units?
                          Yes.

                          Do our scouts need to be kind and supportive to boys with disabilities?
                          Yes.

                          Can we guarantee they always will be?
                          No.

                          Can you guarantee your son won't be one of those thugs in four years?
                          Sounds like your odds are above average, but ...

                          When you and your son get to know the boys in your troop, and the one who is nicest to your son turns out to be the thug, will you want that thug out of there?
                          Probably.

                          ... forever?
                          I'm not so sure GAmom. Because it sounds like you're the kind of person on whom a bunch of boys will grow. Even if you're not an SM, these boys will become your boys and there'll even be a place for the thug among them. Chances are, that might be the one thing that'll keep him from staying a thug.

                          Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
                          I do worry ...
                          Well that's the mom's burden, isn't it? Thanks for bearing it.
                          Last edited by qwazse; 07-15-2014, 09:47 AM.

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                          • #88
                            There are a couple of details I should add about this boy. My troop has more than it's share of kids with issues. Aspergers, ADHD, PTSD, a kid whose parents are in jail, and who knows what caused by medications (why does it take you a half hour to make a bowl of cereal?). The boy of the OP is probably one of the best kids in the troop at getting these other kids to participate. He has plenty of good to work with. That's not a pass for the bad, but it's enough for me to try. There are other scouts that, if they did this, I'd just show them the door and say that's it. This kid doesn't fit that.

                            Secondly, I have since found out his offering to another boy was entirely caused by another scout walking in on the boy and asking him if he was smoking mj. i.e., he was busted and the first, stupid, thing that came to mind was "don't tell anyone and you can have some." This kid is not trying to deal.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              MattR ... nice comments ...

                              Your troop sounds sort of like ours, dead on. Aspergers, ADHD, PTSD, kids whose mother is in jail, medications, etc etc. At a court of honor, my wife said the troop was filled with more than our share of special needs.

                              Please please please forgive me for ever thinking this ... but I wonder if that is a potential problem that scouting has these days. Medical practitioners and others have recognized that scouting can be good for kids facing social challenges and other challenges.

                              So scouting becomes a treatment option.

                              It is strange because those same kids seem to get weeded out of baseball, football and other sports programs ... or so I think ... I don't have real evidence. I just see a high sports drop out rate 3rd grade and up and it's during those years that social issues become more visible.

                              I'm glad to help. I'm glad that my kids socialize and get to know that kids with special needs are okay too and can have normal friendships. It's just that when your own kids don't have aspergers, ADHD, PTSD or other similar conditions and well over half the troop does, you begin to wonder if you should find a place with a lower ratio of special needs that would better serve your own son.

                              Anyway ... it's something I think about. My apologies even for even thinking about it.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by MattR View Post
                                That's not a pass for the bad, but it's enough for me to try. There are other scouts that, if they did this, I'd just show them the door and say that's it. This kid doesn't fit that
                                Oh boy, the kids with the least resources get the boot but the golden boy gets the golden parachute. Have fun with the fallout when you kick the next kid out but not this one.
                                Now that the troubled kids know golden boy has the hookup I bet he'll be even better at motivating them to show up.
                                Last edited by Scouter99; 07-15-2014, 03:23 PM.

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