Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Scouts is Uncool

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by skeptic View Post
    .....Over the years I have had a fairly substantial number of scouts that always have a book, or sometimes more than one, with them on outings and at summer camp. On occasion, they have had to be asked to please put it away while we did an activity; and it is rather nice to see a boy leaning on a tree in the woods reading. What has often been the case in that regard in the families is that TV was either not allowed (in a few cases) or drastically monitored; same with computer related things as the age has developed. Most did not have phones until high school, and they were very limited plans, meant for real needed use only. While they all relished visiting other kids without those limitations (the overheard grapevine), they mostly were more polite, better at things in general because they actually read instructions and the book maybe, and did well in school. Many also were involved in sports, though they tended towards the more singular type such as track or wrestling.
    ......
    I do now have a bit of a problem with the video games and so on becoming a distraction, even when they are not actually there. A few scouts cannot talk about anything else it seems, if not given a specific challenge or goal. They will generally not argue about going back to the task at hand, though they need to be monitored closely, which is the PL and SPL biggest challenges now.
    ......
    I'm just going back and reading, or re-reading this thread.
    You brought up several varied points in your post, but some really make me think....

    I would so much rather see a boy leaning against a tree reading, than playing with technology..... but what I see more of is a boy or boys huddled up in a tent with a video game, with other cubs that didn't bring their games or tablet computers huddled around watching and wanting a turn. Our CM's sons are the ones with all of the latest gadgets, and it's usually around their tent where you find this huddle. On a campout, I view this tech as a sort of cancer. On a camp out last year, I had my son leave his tech at home. Unfortunately, other boys had theirs. I asked my son to go climb a tree or something, but it's hard when he wants to be right in the huddle!
    I wish I could drive a removal of that cancer from our pack, but as mentioned, our CM, as well as other leaders, are the tech crowd and I think view the tech as a way of getting the boys out of their hair so they can burry themselves in their own smartphones.

    Your point about TV on the home front is interesting. I was raised without much limit on TV. I have always contented that a kid can learn from TV, even stupid fiction. I feel that I was able to put myself in the situations of the story line and learn from it...... Situations that I may not otherwise find myself in..... shows like Andy Griffith, Brady Bunch, Munsters, Beaver, Lucy, etc.... usually had some sort of moral or social lesson
    I think even the newer ones that my kids watch now that aren't nearly as "wholesome", can be educational to a degree.
    Still, I do agree with your point that generally speaking kids with stricter limits tend to be more polite and socially well adjusted.
    My wife and I limit our kids with TV & tech, but MAYBE not nearly enough.... I'll have to give this some thought for sure.

    Comment


    • dcsimmons
      dcsimmons commented
      Editing a comment
      Given that facebook has T&Cs that limit accounts to those over 13 years of age, how do you use it for troop communications? Just with the parents and older scouts?

    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      Zing dc !

      A scout is trustworthy, obedient. Certainly your troop is not mandating that the scout violate the Scout Oath by violating the T&C of Facebook.

      I don't think the youth needs years of experience with Facebook in order to succeed in the workforce and college. They will have it down pat after a couple of weeks. Twitter is not rocket science either. There is plenty of time for that. Facebook may not even exist by the time they go to college. MySpace anyone ?

      They do need to know effective communication skills. Reading, writing, speaking. Things Facebook and Twitter do nothing to foster.

      I know I have given you a hard time on a few posts but you occasionally take a very hard line on issues that really seem to fly in the face of what Scouting is all about. I hope you stick around and give me a hard time when I say something equally as outrageous.

    • Scouter99
      Scouter99 commented
      Editing a comment
      There isn't really any other way to put this, stout: What a goofy logic. There's one person in ~The Workforce~ that needs to know how to use Facebook on the job: The online marketing guy. Everyone else is slacking off. Facebook doesn't promote technology literacy, you don't need to know anything technical to use it.
      In the troop setting, as DC pointed out, your troop must either be leaving your 10-12-yr-old scouts out in the cold, or encouraging them to break rules--neither is acceptable.

  • #77
    Scouter99
    Yes your are right noone needs to know how to incorporate JSON XML data from Facebook other than the marketing guy.
    We teach kids how to use firearms but we don't expect them to know how to build one

    Comment


    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      No one "needs" Facebook period.

      You appear to still defend requiring a Scout in your troop to violate the Scout Oath.

      So stout what troop are you with ? Inquiring minds want to know.

  • #78
    KDD Kids have to have acess to face book. That can be from a parent account.
    I love how a thread about keeping scouting cool tuned into a Y kids with technology if a bad thing.
    As you complaing on the internet that the internet is bad.

    Comment


    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      I have not complained about the Internet. I stated no one "needs" to have Facebook. I stated kids do not need to communicate by using Facebook.

      You stated kids "have to have access to Facebook". Why ?

      I cite your post above as evidence why technology alone does not prepare children for effective communication in college or the workforce.

    • st0ut717
      st0ut717 commented
      Editing a comment
      Because gthat is our primary communication with the troop. Updates to meetings etc. It is our troop requirement. If you think the ability to use social media will not help in college or the workforce Well I cant help you there. Thats your opinion and you can have it.

  • #79
    Instant communication is for those whose myopic planning routine doesn't allow for anything else. Scouts going to local events should be planning months in advance. Summer camp at least a year in advance and high adventure minimum of two years out to get reservations in on time. Last minute, throw together events are facilitated by social media, but it only proves how inefficient the unit is operating on a daily basis.

    Comment


    • #80
      Until we drop the school work and have a uniform that looks more like a BDU and less like a corporate-casual desk jockey, scouts will always be uncool.

      Comment


      • Kudu
        Kudu commented
        Editing a comment
        To me, the BDU blouse looks just like the early BSA Scout Uniforms, but my purpose was to show that the current BSA uniform could be easily constructed from outdoor materials, rather than the official indoor dress designer version that most Boy Scouts hated with a passion.

        At the time REI made a excellent breathable nylon hiking shirt (with a generous ventilation flap on the back) the same color as the BSA shirt, so we used that.

      • berliner
        berliner commented
        Editing a comment
        ah - you speak my language. I agree somewhat: I grew up with the entire troop wearing OD BDU pants, and most of them army boots, with the old style pre-centenial shirts. I am used to the class a/class b thing so the scout shirt is only worn to flags at camp, rest of the time is class b's with necker.

        I think the most ridiculous thing is that we are supposed to teach the kids not to lug around so many electronics,
        but the new BSA shirts, even the kids, have a special hole for earphone cable ....
        "No you may not take your MP3 or phone to camp, but your scout uniform shirt got this neat thingo for your earphones ..."

      • Kudu
        Kudu commented
        Editing a comment
        The purpose of the page was to move the BSA in the direction it eventually took: The Uniform as an Outdoor Method. However, it is not as easy to convince parents that the place for their son's expensive "class A" uniform is on the trail.

    • #81
      Something I dug up a while back. Nuf said.

      This Scout Can.
      Scott Miller
      2005-03-02
      A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.
      It's unfortunate that I have to defend the fact that I was a Boy Scout. But there was the whole GOD thing back in the 80's and now the GAY thing; the fact that people have seen them as a para-military group since the 'Nam, and lay on top of that the GEEK thing and you'd just as soon have your kid join the "Dungeons and Dragons Club". I'll wager the D&D may have TALKED about killing, but they never did. (I'm convinced that if the Boy Scouts of America hired the publicist the truckers had during the 1970's they wouldn't be in such piss poor shape. But I digress.. )
      A "Camporee" in the B.S. vernacular is a gathering of troops, generally of the same Area Council (ours still being the Stonewall Jackson Area Council---don't even go there) for a weekend of camping, competition and LEARNING. This particular Camporee was to learn how you could survive in the wild with only your wits, a knife, two matches, a tarp, a compass, a length of rope and whatever you could hide on your person. We were given coordinates to a field strewn with potatoes (I think they referred to them as "Brazilian nuts"). Another set of coordinates took you to a field laden with carrots. You gathered your food, built yourself a shelter, started your fire and waited. For what? FOR WHAT? I'll tell you for what.
      Yonder came a tractor-trailer loaded with live chickens to be released in a fan fare worthy of Les Nessman. When I see pictures of soccer crowds in England going on a rampage, or footage of the Ayatollah Kohmeni's funeral, or the Christmas Season that cabbage patch dolls were the toy to buy, it reminds me of the sight of four or five hundred starving twelve to fifteen year olds chasing after twice as many chickens. Mankind hasn't come that far, let me tell you.
      One scout in our troop, and I won't name him (Macon Coleman) was lucky enough to be among the first to snatch a bird, and before anyone could think he smacked it's head against a tree trunk. Job done. And done well, I might add. We had that yard bird plucked, gutted and cooked before ANYONE. We were ready to chow down so quick that we almost missed the scoutmaster running from fire to fire telling everyone NOT to eat the birds. Somebody figured out that they weren't FDA inspected, and the last thing the BSA needed was a lawsuit...
      It was then I looked over at the campsite next to ours, and saw a lone scout holding a live chicken in his arms. He was crying. I guess the chicken was too. He couldn't bring himself to kill it.
      I guess it would be here you would expect some sappy ending, but those damn city troops were a bunch of wimps. He'd probably make his parents stop off at KFC on the way home because he was hungry and not give it a second thought.
      I guess to be a scout you don't have to kill chickens, just choke 'em.
      BUT IN CONCLUSION:
      To all you "crunchy granola suites" out there, when you're having a meadow party and you have your kegs but no one can build a fire because it's raining, who can?
      This scout can.

      When you're drowning after diving into the town duck pond drunk as a skunk, who can save you?
      This scout can.

      When you're moving home from college and you're trying to tie down your Morrisey poster so it won't fly off your parents' car, who can?
      This scout can.

      When it does fly off your car and causes a huge accident, who can treat the wounds of your soon to be accusers?
      This scout can.

      Who can out-smoke, out-drink, out-cuss and then (and only then) out-argue you about the worthiness of The Boy Scouts?
      This scout can.

      Comment


      • blw2
        blw2 commented
        Editing a comment
        I enjoyed that.
        I even remember the Less Nessman reference when it originally broadcasted back in the day.
        Too funny!
        Last edited by blw2; 07-10-2013, 03:01 PM.

      • King Ding Dong
        King Ding Dong commented
        Editing a comment
        Arthur 'Big Guy' Carlson: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!

    • #82
      So, um, wow. Probably shouldn't have started my time here by reading this thread.

      Comment


      • #83
        My buddies razzed me and the girls laughed at my "little uniform". Then the local paper did a write up following my Eagle COH. Same buddies, same girls (even the "hot" ones) all agreed my Eagle accomplishment was pretty cool. Go figure.

        Comment


        • #84
          I have made/been involved with homepage and 2 Facebook pages for Scouts - one public and one a private group.
          Public one is great for recruting, advertising fundraisers, thanking your sponosor/charter etc.
          The private group is great for the kids to share camp pictures etc.
          I knew a 8 year old who's mom (Pack Leader/Akeela) made an account for the scout ... who am I to say something?


          Ok, a joke I slightly altered (original: Magic the gathering), hope you guys think its funny:


          a) Boy scout aye? Wow you're really letting your nerd flag fly.

          b) Actually its a GEEK flag.
          Nerds are more academically inclined, while we geeks are just super-passionate about our hobbies.

          a) I see. And the people who know and care about this difference are called ...?

          b) I believe "dork" is the prefered nomenclature.



          Comment


          • #85
            Originally posted by berliner View Post


            a) Boy scout aye? Wow you're really letting your nerd flag fly.

            b) Actually its a GEEK flag. Nerds are more academically inclined, while we geeks are just super-passionate about our hobbies.

            a) I see. And the people who know and care about this difference are called ...?

            b) I believe "dork" is the prefered nomenclature.
            That's going on our Troop's Website!

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by berliner View Post
              I have made/been involved with homepage and 2 Facebook pages for Scouts - one public and one a private group.
              Public one is great for recruting, advertising fundraisers, thanking your sponosor/charter etc.
              The private group is great for the kids to share camp pictures etc.
              Add passworded Websites to my list of why Scouts is uncool. In sports, a boy's first AND last name are published in both the analog newspaper and the online edition to announce his accomplishments.

              In Scouts we hide in secret vaults what is cool about Scouts (the one thing that has proven to recruit Boy Scouts to our Troop), so as to protect young men against imaginary monsters lurking in the parking lot.


              Comment


              • berliner
                berliner commented
                Editing a comment
                I agree, but what am I/we going to do? Best to offer a closed and an open site than none at all.
                We are not allowed to post pictures of scouts faces publicly - so you need good pics to advertise your activities without showing faces. Difficult but doable. PITA.
                Eventhough when the parents sign the kid up they actually have this part about pictures now that is signed, but oh well ...
                Now some of those monsters are not imaginary sadly. But its a bit overdone.
                Like telling overseas BSA not to wear uniforms off base because that could make you a target for terrorists o_O no kidding.
                Troops here get terror warnings from the embassy. Uncool.

                But we try to work around every obstacle and find our way - right? ;-)

            • #87
              Add "No Electronics" policies to the uncool.

              Show me a Troop that forbids electronics, and I'll show you a car-camping unit where the adults don't get enough exercise.

              Comment


              • Kudu
                Kudu commented
                Editing a comment
                Most of the active adults I know listen to MP3s when they backpack, jog, walk, and work out. Why should Boy Scouts wait until they quit?

                The BSA program is designed to move a Cub Scout survivor to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with a pack on his back. So, yes, "No Electronics" policies serve the important function of allowing adult Wood Badge/ItOLS graduates the illusion that packing Patrols into small, crowded car camps is Scouting.

                But really, if to reach Eagle the BSA required even a single night of what Baden-Powell called "camping," how would you even know that a Patrol at 300 feet, or a remote Boy Scout on a required back-woods Journey, had electronics?

                I encourage our Scouts to bring phones and MP3 players on backpack trips but, as you can see from our videos, most of them save their batteries for bed:

                https://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet
                Last edited by Kudu; 09-22-2013, 05:38 PM.

              • berliner
                berliner commented
                Editing a comment
                Cant watch youtube at the moment ;-) Will check that out later.

                Yes adults and kids can both enjoy MP3 players when jogging on their own or what not, and if it takes 10-12 hours to get to camp by train or bus or whatever we let them play video games even. Nowadays camera, music, game and phone come in one piece anyway.
                If I dont see it outside the tent I wont bother.
                But I still think that the idea is for them to be together as a patrol, talk to their buddies and on a hike maybe
                hear the birds and waterfall and what not, and not the Top 40 Countdown.
                On some hikes MP3s would be a simple safety hazard.
                Time and place for everthing ;-)

              • Kudu
                Kudu commented
                Editing a comment
                "The mission of the BSA is to advance Cub Scout survivors to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with a pack on their backs, and to call that 'making ethical choices'."

                What makes Scouts uncool is that we have replaced physical distance (objective standards) with the subjective judgment of adults.

                We replaced Journeys (as each rank's test of Scoutcraft) with subjective adult sign-offs, Scoutmaster Conferences, and Boards of Review. We replaced "Real" Patrols (a Patrol Leader's ability to physically lead his Patrol into the backwoods), with a subjective "understanding" of EDGE theory.

                So for how most adults experience Scouting (Patrols squeezed together into small car-camp sites), the subjective need of adult helicopters to see Scouts "together as a patrol, talk to their buddies and on a hike maybe hear the birds and waterfall and what not, and not the Top 40 Countdown" is overwhelming.

                Some Troops use "Electronics Chit" cards.

                Real Boy Scouts (those who enjoy walking into the woods with packs on their backs) use electronics responsibly, as the videos show:

                https://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet

                As for "On some hikes MP3s would be a simple safety hazard," do the Scouts in our videos appear to be in danger?

                Everyone knows that fake "safety" (along with "Scout Sprit") is the sacred wild card of our adult-run Cub Scout program for teenagers.
            Working...
            X