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Missed opportunities for adult training

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  • #16
    Originally posted by AZMike View Post
    I think it would be a real draw to offer Wilderness First Aid certification to the adult leaders during summer camp.
    This kind of stuff makes too much sense, they'll never go for it.

    Stosh

    Comment


    • #17
      Our council camp offers IOLS and SM/ASM training at the council camp all summer long. And it's available free of charge to any registered leader in the council. Of course, this info isn't advertised at all except by word of mouth so many new leaders don't know about it. Still, it's a good thing. Wish the cub camp would follow the example, getting BALOO or Webelos leader training is difficult as the council offers it only once a year and the districts generally not at all.

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      • #18
        Our closest council camp offers what they call "IOLS" in seven total hours. That is one symptom of the reality that training is in a shambles in that council.

        The merit badge mill my troop attended offers all of Scoutmaster basic training, including IOLS, in twelve hours. (4 x 3).

        It is a real opportuinity - for real training.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
          For fun I tried out a new rocket stove I made (at camp, of course), Worked really well burning only grass, leaves and twigs. I can see leaving the Coleman home next year and saving on the price of white gas and propane.
          Stosh
          Tut, tut.

          "Prohibited Chemical-Fueled Equipment:
          Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed."
          http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-013WB.pdf

          Originally posted by AZMike View Post
          I think it would be a real draw to offer Wilderness First Aid certification to the adult leaders during summer camp.
          Our council does that, but we don't camp there.

          The training sessions I've been to during summer camp, from YPT to Weather Hazzards to Climb Safely, have been horrid. Disinterested staffers who probably took the assignment to get into the AC for a couple hours doing a half-way job with a group of equally disinterested crusty hardheads who know better.
          Last edited by Scouter99; 08-17-2014, 11:57 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post
            Tut, tut. "Prohibited Chemical-Fueled Equipment: Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed." http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-013WB.pdf .
            Read the definition of chemical fuels - it only includes "gaseous, liquid or gelled fuels." It doesn't include grass, twigs and leaves. Therefore, homemade stoves that burn wood are perfectly acceptable unde G2SS.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post

              Tut, tut.

              "Prohibited Chemical-Fueled Equipment:
              Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed."
              http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-013WB.pdf
              Prohibited chemical-Fueled Equipment.... Wood does not fall into that category. Think of it as a small fire-ring.

              Anyone who burns wood in a charcoal grill is thus in violation of this chemical-fueled equipment? I'm thinking probably not.

              When BSA prohibits the burning of wood as fuel in any man-made fire-ring, fireplace, grill, or other portable contraption, then I'll reconsider my rocket stove.

              Then there's the kabob pit that would also be outlawed by BSA.... 2 row of bricks and a layer of briquettes between, lay the kabobs across the bricks. Of course this could turn into a 10' pit if one were doing the troop-method cooking. That could become quite dangerous having those briquettes corralled only with man-made bricks.

              Even the old #10 can cookers would fall into the chemical-fueled equipment in that they burned paraffin. The rocket stove burns wood, grass or any other organic materials

              I also have a white gas Coleman stove with a butane converter which would make that stove prohibited. Of course, I haven't used white gas in it for years.

              Also keep it in mind that the rocket stove burns so efficiently that when installed in homes they do not have chimneys. I haven't got the nerve to try that at this point, but it does produce a tremendous amount of heat off of a small amount of fuel. It would seem that these stoves are becoming quite popular in the colder climes of northern Europe.

              Stosh


              Comment


              • #22
                My son's Troop goes OOC for summer Camp. They offer IOLS and other training. There are usually 20 to 25 taking IOLS which includes an overnight away from the Troop. Our council tried offer IOLS at summer camp, no one signed up to take it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post

                  Tut, tut.

                  "Prohibited Chemical-Fueled Equipment:
                  Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed."
                  http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-013WB.pdf
                  You missed part of that quote:
                  Wood and solids are not chemical fuels, and there is nothing wrong with homebuilt solid fuel stoves:

                  Purpose

                  This policy directs Boy Scouts of America members how to safely store, handle, and use chemical fuels and equipment. Safety and environmental awareness concerns have persuaded many campers to move away from traditional outdoor campfires in favor of chemical-fueled equipment used for cooking, heating, and lighting. Be aware that chemical fuels and equipment create very different hazards than traditional wood, charcoal, and other solid fuels; this policy defines how to address those hazards.
                  Before any chemical fuels or chemical-fueled equipment is used, an adult knowledgeable about chemical fuels and equipment, including regulatory requirements, should resolve any hazards not specifically addressed within this policy.
                  Definitions

                  Chemical fuels—Liquid, gaseous, or gelled fuels.


                  http://www.scouting.org/Home/Healtha...GSS/gss06.aspx

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by perdidochas View Post

                    You missed part of that quote:
                    Wood and solids are not chemical fuels, and there is nothing wrong with homebuilt solid fuel stoves:

                    Purpose

                    This policy directs Boy Scouts of America members how to safely store, handle, and use chemical fuels and equipment. Safety and environmental awareness concerns have persuaded many campers to move away from traditional outdoor campfires in favor of chemical-fueled equipment used for cooking, heating, and lighting. Be aware that chemical fuels and equipment create very different hazards than traditional wood, charcoal, and other solid fuels; this policy defines how to address those hazards.
                    Before any chemical fuels or chemical-fueled equipment is used, an adult knowledgeable about chemical fuels and equipment, including regulatory requirements, should resolve any hazards not specifically addressed within this policy.
                    Definitions

                    Chemical fuels—Liquid, gaseous, or gelled fuels.


                    http://www.scouting.org/Home/Healtha...GSS/gss06.aspx
                    OR..... he read "rocket fuel stove" rather than just "rocket stove". I've made that mistake a couple of times and put my cat into orbit.

                    Stosh

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Even the old #10 can cookers would fall into the chemical-fueled equipment in that they burned paraffin.
                      I hope not. I don't think parraffin fits the definition of "chemical fuel." If it did, there goes the Buddy Burner. http://scoutingmagazine.org/issues/9411/a-tcan.html

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The rules seems to ban smudge pots for lighting purposes. Correct? My council camp uses them extensively for OA purposes.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jblake47 View Post

                          OR..... he read "rocket fuel stove" rather than just "rocket stove". I've made that mistake a couple of times and put my cat into orbit.

                          Stosh
                          Or I was pulling your leg. That was fun.

                          Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                          The rules seems to ban smudge pots for lighting purposes. Correct? My council camp uses them extensively for OA purposes.
                          That's really quite funny given that your council uses the same policy that bans their smudge pots to make everyone take some ridiculous stove training. (wasn't that you complaining about that?)
                          Last edited by Scouter99; 08-22-2014, 10:38 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I wasn't really complaining about the TOASTED Chit, but I do find it rather humorous. Updated mine and dragged along all the leaders present on day at camp. It only took a half hour. Given the fact that many leaders can be really green with outdoor skills I suppose it is a good idea, but all it really boils down to is "follow the manufactures instructions", but with communal equipment there are no instructions to be found.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Back to topic ... I recertified my BSA guard at camp. It was a good use of my time, and kept me out of the boys' hair most of the day. (The course was at the other camp on reservation, so I clocked most of my service hours guarding boys from other troops.) Unfortunately, the certification card never got back to me. I contacted the reservation director who said he'd look into it. This kind of snag may take months to resolve. Offering WFA and other challenging adult/older scout courses at summer camp sounds like a good idea, but we have a ways to go to make the follow-up work smoothly.

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