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  • Trainer's Edge

    I took the Trainer's Edge session yesterday and, while I didn't learn too many new things about public speaking or training people , I had a great time. Those of us who will be on Wood Badge staff this fall participated in the training along side the Scouts who will staff NYLT this summer. It was a great experience being with the Scouts and having several of them train the Scouters.

  • #2
    I took Wilderness First Aid this weekend, and could say something similar (3 youth 12 adults). Only one instructor and assistant; however, both adults. Good fellowship, and it was a pleasure to see an older venturer working on her ranger award between college terms.

    I would like to coordinate a course in our community involving more youth participants and instructor's assistants.

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    • #3
      It would be quite the wake-up call if adult training events became Scout-run, wouldn't it? At my Wood Badge course several Venturers trained us on camp cooking, sanitation, and basic camp set-up. Heck, it's great practice for the Scouts to get up in front of people and make presentations. Some of the guys on Saturday did much better than adults who have "trained" me!

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      • #4
        At roundtable, I suggested developing youth instructors for SM basic (IOLSC). Talk about an idea being shouted down faster than I could speak it! Evidently since the syllabus requires complete "Train-the-Trainer" for all instructors.

        Seasoned instructors please comment ...

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        • #5
          @qwasze, I have served on staff for at least four IOLS courses. I've been the course director for Scoutmaster specific training. And I just now took the Trainer's Edge course because I'll be on Wood Badge staff this fall. Pretty sure you don't need any specific "train the trainer" course for IOLS. In fact, I checked the IOLS syllabus and it doesn't mention any age minimum or requirements for staff members other than they prepare in advance and do a good job.

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          • #6
            My general experience with youth put into adult roles is that they're connected incompetents who've been put there by adults who are more interested in making kids feel good or putting their connected kid on display than they are in a quality job being done. If you've got serous youth and it worked, fine, but I don't trust the Council or District good ole boys clubs around here (or 90% of the rest of the country) to pick the right youth much less look for them to begin with.

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            • #7
              @Scouter99, I don't doubt that there is nepotism of a sort throughout the network of BSA Councils/Districts. However, there must be some efficient/effective way to promote youth leadership and participation in training. For example, for Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills (IOLS), why not have some of the OA Arrowmen volunteer to train new Scouters on basic outdoor skills? I mean, at my IOLS course the director said the idea of that particular training was to make each Scouter familiar with the basic skills needed to become a First Class Scout. If a Scout has been elected to the OA, has passed his Ordeal, and is an active Arrowman in the Lodge, it follows that he has attained the rank of First Class and should be able to teach those skills.

              I believe that having to teach something is an excellent way to learn that "something" well. As I said, I've seen Scouts teach basic outdoor skills much better than Scouters...I maintain that it would be very interesting to have Scouts on the training staff.

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              • #8
                OA is the worst of them all, hahaha!
                Like I said, I'm not opposed to it if somewhere there are people doing it right. I don't personally see the point, frankly, so it's not something I care about implementing, but when they get youth to do something adults ought to be doing around here (all scouting is local ), it's a crapshow.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post
                  ... when they get youth to do something adults ought to be doing around here (all scouting is local ), it's a crapshow. ...
                  Because, really, watching an articulate scouter set up a fire lay that won't light with 10 matches beats watching an inarticulate youth set up one that lights with 1 or less.

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                  • #10
                    War story. A couple of us older Scouts were asked to lay the council fire for an OA ceremony. We built a Tepee in a log cabin base and filled it with pine needles and pinecones. When it was started, an adult decided it was not roaring fast enough and elected to slosh some "fire water" on the already-vigourous fire

                    The first aid problem that followed was very real. Not "realistic." Real. 0___0

                    It was a long time before that was forgotten. "The night when he threw gas on the fire."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by qwazse View Post
                      Because, really, watching an articulate scouter set up a fire lay that won't light with 10 matches beats watching an inarticulate youth set up one that lights with 1 or less.
                      You're not hearing me because you like this idea: Maybe where you are they find boys who are inarticulate but can light a 1-match fire. For the 3rd time now: Where I am, they pick boys who are both inarticulate and cannot light a fire with 10 matches, but daddy gave $5,000 to FoS, or ran the camp 20 years ago, or was the RT commissioner. I don't care for the idea because it wouldn't bear results here.

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                      • #12
                        'Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" If youth, or 18-20 y.o. Scouters for that matter, have the knowledge, skills, and abilities to teach IOLS, let them.

                        No where in the syllabus I have says the folks on staff have to have TtT for IOLS, or have taken the course previously for that matter. When I recruited for IOLS staff, I looked for the folks who I knew were the best in whatever skills they would be teaching. In two cases, the staffers also completed the course.

                        And again, that includes youth. Last time I ran IOLS, I used 2 youth Arrowmen on staff who I knew very well and knew they could do the job of teaching. And both did great jobs. It made an impression on a few folks that you can really let youth run things, and that the Patrol Method does indeed work.

                        Unfortunately one of those Arrowman just became an adult, and the district training chair is making him take IOLS as a student, even though he worked with him on the IOLS course I ran, and 1 he ran. Rationale for that one is that is, " I don't want anyone thinking I'm just signing off for my son."

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                        • #13
                          @Scouter99, we're not trying to bash you, buddy. But it must really be no fun in your local Council with all those good ol' boyz and incompetent Scouts. Sorry, I had to.

                          Thanks, @Eagle92, for sharing your experience with Arrowmen in an IOLS training situation. I think I'll suggest this to our council training chair.

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                          • #14
                            I go to training for the "War Stories", not for instructions of how to light a fire. Adults are a bit unrelaxed around youth (see YPT) so unless you have the "perfect" youth example leading the training, most adults would prefer adults.

                            And if you did have the perfect youth example, why isn't he/she leading training for other youths?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fehler View Post
                              I go to training for the "War Stories", not for instructions of how to light a fire. Adults are a bit unrelaxed around youth (see YPT) so unless you have the "perfect" youth example leading the training, most adults would prefer adults.

                              And if you did have the perfect youth example, why isn't he/she leading training for other youths?
                              Well, @Fehler, I think the "War Stories" are definitely a component of training sessions. However, that's not the point of the training.

                              As for the "perfect youth", I'm not advocating for perfection. None of the Scouters who have trained me have been perfect.

                              Also, I find it a tad amusing that Scouters should be made to feel "unrelaxed' around Scouts...Why are the involved in Scouting then?

                              Older Scouts should be training younger Scouts within their units, that's part of their duty. But I would echo what the founders said, don't ever do something a Scout can do. If that means train Scouters on fire safety/fire building or map/compass then why should we have a crusty old Good Ol' Boy teaching it? Because it makes the trainee more comfortable?

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