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Combining IOLS and Scoutmaster Specific Training Into One Weekend?

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  • Combining IOLS and Scoutmaster Specific Training Into One Weekend?

    Our council has decided to combine Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills and Scoutmaster Specific training into one weekend. In my experience teaching some of these segments on staff, participants' eyes start to glaze over after about an hour in ONE of the courses. When they first tried the combination people seemed overwhelmed and the staff started to skim the material and rush through things. In the end, I don't think the IOLS part was adequately implemented.

    Have any of you experienced this kind of combination weekend? If so, how did it go?

    LeCastor

  • #2
    I do believe it was once combined. I got my entire training under a program called SM Fundamentals, ran from Friday night through Sunday morning. I could be wrong, it was 20 years ago now.

    Stosh

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    • #3
      When we do IOLS, it takes from Friday dinner time to Sunday afternoon, and all the staff feels really pushed to cover most of the the topics.

      I have done three previous versions of Scoutmaster training as a learner and staff, and the outdoor part always filled a weekend.

      Hopefully, the new SM/SA Specific syllabus will not be so deadly.

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      • #4
        Yes you are right Stosh, that is the syllabus I was suggesting Kudu use to design a walking WB type course. It is interesting how councils are trying to fix these courses. The old SM Fundamentals course Stosh is talking about was broken up into the present SM Specific and IOLS course because there was so too information for one weekend. Let us know how it turns out. BArry

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        • #5
          Our district has done this over two weekends. Sunday of weekend1 is the SM Specific followed by the IOLS Patrol meeting. IOLS is the following weekend.

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          • #6
            I just did my IOLS weekend. It was so full by itself (not to mention cold and rainy), there is no way you could properly cover all of that material and the SM Specific in one weekend. I did the SM Specific over 3 Saturday mornings (in conjunction with our Council MB University), and it was still a lot to cover.

            If they don't want to cover the material properly, they shouldn't offer it at all- go to another Council if you have to- doing it correctly is the only way to fly.

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            • #7
              When Do-it-right is replaced by Do-it-quick, the eventual result is Why-bother.

              My $0.02

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RememberSchiff View Post
                When Do-it-right is replaced by Do-it-quick, the eventual result is Why-bother.

                My $0.02
                According to Googlefu, you have coined an original. Congrats!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RememberSchiff View Post
                  When Do-it-right is replaced by Do-it-quick, the eventual result is Why-bother. My $0.02
                  And then later BSA wonders why it's leaders are under-trained.

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                  • #10
                    I did mine over 4 hours a day over a week at Summer Camp. Left time to practice knots before properly learning how to raise a dining fly; plenty of time to master food prep and cooking, etc. I think I would not combine.

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                    • #11
                      @Tampa Turtle, I bet you received that training at Woodruff, huh? I have lots of good memories of camping there as a youth!

                      I served on staff the last time our council combined the "indoor" and "outdoor" training (as they've been unofficially named around here). And I had prepared for several hours to teach my assigned segments. Since time was, undoubtedly, limited, the course director asked me to cut mine short. I felt cheated but, more importantly, I felt like I cheated the participants.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mozartbrau View Post
                        And then later BSA wonders why it's leaders are under-trained.
                        I'm not sure they are wondering that. If you can get enough experience to understand how unit leaders are trained and who the unit leaders are, you may start to respect the problem of how much training is required to run a program.

                        Give or take only about 25 to 35 percent of new volunteers had any kind of scouting experience, and not many more of them has an outdoors camping experience. So you get confronted with how much training does someone who is totally clueless of scouting need to have to run a unit program? Even worse, is it possible to give that adult enough training so that they can do an acceptable job without making them take a semester of courses?

                        One problem I kept seeing with female Bear Den Leaders was they were terrified of camping and they wanted out before becoming a Webelos leader. If at best only 35% of adults have some kind of camping experience, you can imagine the challenge of getting adults at least comfortable with running a youth camping program. Like I said, walk a mile in Nationals shoes, and maybe we can at least respect the challenge.

                        What exactly is the goal of IOLS? Is it to turn adults into skilled leaders? Can the course even do that?

                        Are we reaching a point in our society where scouting will have to change to be safe for the adults?

                        Barry

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                        • #13
                          on a similar vain, I'm trying to figure out why my district and council doesn't offer an OWL course by itself. (or WELOT, or whatever it's called). In the rare even that it's offered it's coupled with IOLS.
                          Just like the BALOO requirement is different, these are too, right? Different topics, different purposes..... why confuse the issue?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eagledad View Post
                            Like I said, walk a mile in Nationals shoes, and maybe we can at least respect the challenge.
                            But dumbing down a program to "train" people is not the answer either. Develop a basic course to get those who are clueless started. Have an intermediate course to teach them more and have the advanced course for those who can use that. But national has to understand you cannot expect a clueless SM to be an outdoorsman, offer a good outdoor program and offer watered-down training when his first year Scouts will get better training (hopefully) at camp in the summer. Rather than spend time on watered-down training, develop an "out of the box" training kit that allows new SMs with no background or outdoors skills to develop a program that can get his unit up to speed. Giving him IOLS -- even watered down -- is akin to throwing him in to the pool in the deep end when he cannot swim. Very silly.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mozartbrau View Post
                              But dumbing down a program to "train" people is not the answer either. Develop a basic course to get those who are clueless started. Have an intermediate course to teach them more and have the advanced course for those who can use that. But national has to understand you cannot expect a clueless SM to be an outdoorsman, offer a good outdoor program and offer watered-down training when his first year Scouts will get better training (hopefully) at camp in the summer. Rather than spend time on watered-down training, develop an "out of the box" training kit that allows new SMs with no background or outdoors skills to develop a program that can get his unit up to speed. Giving him IOLS -- even watered down -- is akin to throwing him in to the pool in the deep end when he cannot swim. Very silly.
                              I pretty much agree. The problem is that there are a lot of men who think they know the basics who don't. They'll all want to start in intermediate...... I know I was less than impressed by my IOLS experience, but I had it a year after I'd started with the Troop as a committee member, albeit the committee member that goes on 80% of the campouts. I had camped with the Boys for a year, and had been a Scout (and a Webelos Den Leader for 2 1/2 yrs). I knew 90% of the basics. I taught some of my IOLS classmates how to tie the basic knots (well except for the timber hitch, which I didn't master until this year). I would have liked an intermediate course, and would love an advanced course.

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