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  • Cub Leader who pays for Woodbadge

    Just curious,

    So what are your thoughts on a Pack paying for a Den Leader to attend woodbadge????

    Personally I think it is way out of line.

    If the Pack is that flush with money they need to reduce what they are charging their families or increase the spending on the boys.

    I don't have an issue with spending the $10 and sending them to the position specific training, it does include lunch. But $300 of the boys money is too much.

  • #2
    I think it depends in part on how big the pack is. The sister pack to our troop has about 160 cubs and it's in desperate need of qualified, committed, trained leaders. I'd say two bucks a scout to help achieve that objective is not out of line, even for a half dozen scouters. I, on the other hand, attended Wood Badge when I was cubmaster of a pack with about 15 scouts. I paid my own way.


    • Basementdweller
      Basementdweller commented
      Editing a comment
      That Pack is an exception

      So what about the average size pack which is about 25 boys or so......

  • #3
    Any unit should not pay for Wood Badge, period. Wood Badge is not about position-specific training. In fact, one of the messages we got on our first day of WB was "It's All About Me." In other words, you spend all your other scouting time doing stuff for others, Wood Badge is all about YOU. Since it's all about you and the befits to the unit are tangential at best (ticket items notwithstanding), why would any unit pay?


    • qwazse
      qwazse commented
      Editing a comment
      Don't remember it, and probably wouldn't countenance it if I heard it. Can't imagine our course director saying anything of the sort.

    • Brewmeister
      Brewmeister commented
      Editing a comment
      That was an actual slide in one of the many interminable PowerPoint presentations we sat through. I remember it well.

    • ParkMan
      ParkMan commented
      Editing a comment
      Sounds like someone on the staff misunderstood the curriculum. I can see someone saying that it's up to you to make a difference, but not that Wood Badge is all about you. As both a participant and staffer, the message I saw was one of service to the scouts and take what you learn here and make a difference in your units,

  • #4
    Troop, yes. Pack, no. Why would a Cub leader need Wood Badge?


    • gotta run
      gotta run commented
      Editing a comment
      I have no idea.
      Last edited by gotta run; 10-11-2013, 06:54 AM.

  • #5
    Here we go again....
    Why take WB? 1) Because I want to
    2) Because my unit says they would like me to/ need me to
    3) Because it's required for the Jamboree..whatever.
    4) Because someone else will pay for it and it's a neat mini vaction away from home...

    Okay. So for whatever reason, you re going to WB. How to pay for it? Can't be free,:: the pychology of training ALWAYS includes the BUY IN. If you have no investment (time, mioney, emotion) it will mean the less to you.
    The money part can be fulfilled in many ways.
    ** Pay for it yourself. 'Nuf said.
    ** By your involvement and DEMONSTRATED dedication to Scouting, perhaps the Unit can help (do they offer? Do you ask?).
    ** Some companies recognize WB as a worthy management training. Ask your HR folks about company help.
    ** Some Unions see WB as a worthy community service, in encouraging Scout Leaders. Mine was paid by my union. They only required that I not get "fired" from my job for a year!
    ** I have heard of churches helping financially (see above about "companies"), seeing WB as a worthy social endeavor , Scouting being what it is.

    It ultimately is kinda like the song about "Sharon"..... you got to pay with your heart, ultimately, to make the WB course worth while. And, as has been said in other threads, it is dependant on the training staff. Some WB's seem to be better than others. The beads all look alike to me.


    • #6
      In my opinion, WB does improve program and longevity. You make contacts, learn more about BSA and become a better leader. I would encourage Webelos Den Leaders to go because it helps them better prepare their Webelos for the Boy Scout transition.


      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        I disagree,

        The only thing that will prepare the boys is going on outings with the troop they intend on joining.

    • #7
      Cub leaders should definitely attend Wood Badge. Leading a Cub Pack has different dynamics than a Boy Scout Troop, but it's no less difficult. It requires trained leaders too. Many of the skills you learn in Wood Badge are directly applicable to the Cub experience. Leading a team of adult, planning large events, developing an annual program - these are all the things that den & pack leaders do all the time.


      • Brewmeister
        Brewmeister commented
        Editing a comment
        The part about "planning large events" and "developing an annual program" must have been left out of my Wood Badge course... Was that after the Game of Life? Lemme look through all the PowerPoint printouts they gave me....

        EDIT: Holy cow I actually found a printout on "project planning." Right after "Managing conflict." Well I'll be!
        Last edited by Brewmeister; 10-15-2013, 12:03 PM.

      • ParkMan
        ParkMan commented
        Editing a comment
        I am referring to all Cub leaders - that includes pack committee members, Cubmasters, Asst. Cubmasters, as well as Den leaders. Many packs I know are 40+, if not 60+ boys & families. Organizing a pack is a lot of work.

        However, since you mention den leaders, let's look at that. One of my den leaders plans our B&G banquet. It's a feast for 200 people with catered food, program, activities, etc. It requires coordinating amongst numerous adults, leaders, and dens. Several other den leaders plan portions of our campouts for 150 people. The Webelos den leaders coordinate joint activities across 4 different dens. They are planning several Webelos campouts and other activities a year.

        Let's think about the den leaders in their own dens. For example, they need to sit down and figure out how to complete the 12 different requirements of the Bear rank across 25 meetings. That's 25 different meetings, activities, field trips, etc. You could just throw that together or you could sit down and come up with a cohesive plan for the year. Being a den leader isn't just about then hour you're sitting with the boys. There's a lot of behind the scenes activity to make that hour seamless.

        The project planning section of WB is just an hour or two. That's an appropriate level of background for these events. Having den leaders go through an hour on project planning is a good thing in my book.

        There's many different ways to look at the Wood Badge program. If you look at the individual courses, most of them have some relevance to Cub leaders. I've mentioned project planning, but there are others too. However, you could just as easily look at Wood Bdage as a course designed to get leaders focused on building a vision and executing it. That's a great thing for den leaders to do. Reducing Wood Badge to a course on the stages of team development is too simplistic.

      • berliner
        berliner commented
        Editing a comment
        Good one JoeBob. Now I am not a WouldBadger, but dont be so harsh on the Den Leaders.
        They are like the New Guys and just want to be like one of the other Banana Republic Generals,
        with a chest full of knots like us here ;-)

        There is no such thing as "overtrained". If someone wants to move a Den like a Division, let 'em.

        And 1 hour a week is always sweettalk - more like 1 hour per kid if you consider prep & clean up and the whole mess.

        Brewmeister - stop playing with PowerPoint and have a cold one

        Parkman - agree 1 or 2 hours intro is good. For larger Cub Programs as Prep dont look at Woodbadge but NDCS/NCS.

    • #8
      I also found the "It's all about YOU" slide I referenced earlier:


      • #9
        I took it (and paid for it myself) 3 1/2 years ago when I was a fairly new DL, my choice. My wife did also a little more than a year later. Both glad we did. It painted the "big picture" that neither of us had (I only went as far as Webelos as a boy), and upped the commitment ante for both of us and helped me in cub leader duties, district roles that I ended up in, and in my professional life. At the time I took it, there were probably 6 WB trained adult leaders (approx 100 cubs), and the troop my son chose to join also has about 100 scouts and probably 18 or so WB trained adults (including my wife and I). I witnessed beadings of some of our cub leaders, and noticed that those leaders stood out from the others (who were also great for sure). When I knew I wanted to take things to the next level, and after I attended a session at our council's University of Scouting describing WB, I decided that was the next step for me. No regrets! As for paying, I've seen one instance where I was part of a vote to approve the pack paying for our incoming CM to take it, and it worked out great. Another instance I advocated for a leader to take it using funding from council - while she completed the course and got beaded, the pack didn't quite get the benefit I would have expected out of her ticket items nor the course itself. That was more a lack of knowledge of the person on my part than anything else.


        • #10
          I took WB at my own expense, but was reimbursed by the troop eventually. I did my ticket on the Webelos transition so I went back for 2 years and was Webelos DL during that time. It helped both programs, which was my expectation.