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  • #31
    Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........

    I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014.


    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      I concur with all you say, and when the dust settles, why do we go through the sham motions to give the appearance of some sort of boy leadership at a Jambo contingent when in reality there really isn't any? The boys aren't stupid, the adults aren't fooling them one bit. It's a process by which adults can delegate responsibility duties on boys who have no authority to follow through. They're set up to take the fall right from the get-go. Yeah, right, I can see me in the back row waving my hand and yelling, "Pick me! Pick me!"

    • qwazse
      qwazse commented
      Editing a comment
      Not sure why anyone would expect NYLT to be a slam-dunk qualification for SPL. I'm also not sure why it's a problem if all of your trained kids take non-SPL positions. If the non-SPLs truly have NYLT koolaid in their blood, they ought a be servant-leaders regardless of the patch on their sleave. They will help the SPL be successful.

      Maybe the one kid who was not NYLT trained was busy being a den chief, going to camp with the troop and the pack, and being a camp counselor at his church.

      Son #2 and a buddy wound up taking the VLST (yes, the adult leader course for venturers, long story) earlier this year. Then his buddy wound up being SPL and chose him for an assistant. Neiher had any other position-specific training and they really did a bang-up job at camp this week. At closing campfire, the SPL (last year with e troop) thanked me for steadily pushing him into leadership.

      None of our boys are NYLT trained because it is always held on our summer camp week. They just get it into their heads that the SM and I don't give a rodent's burro about patches on their sleeves. We expect them to lead at all times, and command respect of their peers. That way, any contingent leader can see their unit # and 1st class rank and know they are looking at the right stuff.
      Last edited by qwazse; 06-25-2013, 05:14 AM.

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      This is what happens when people make stupid rules.

      Unless you have NYLT you can't lead. Unless you have 21st Century WB you can't lead. It always makes me chuckle when I see rules like this and people pass on the wisdom of the elders. Like the company who hires the young person right out of college because they have all the latest and greatest knowledge offered on the market today. And yet they pass on the older worker who in fact made the market what it is today. Instead of the latest fad floating around, the older person can pick and chose from their mega years of experience what will work best in this situation. While over 50 years of hunting I have always only used one shot for every deer I have brought down. That doesn't mean I don't carry extra ammo.

  • #32
    I took Woodbadge years ago mainly to get over the hump of people perceiving that I was new to scouting. i.e. Peer Pressure. I must admit I often hide out in the back of the room at round table so that when the Wood Badge promos begin, I can sneak out of the room and network with the others that are smart enough to hide near the back of the room.

    - Networking
    - elimination of peer pressure.

    - Tickets - I was already doing too much in scouting. Now you want to ask me to do more? Fine, but you better refer me to a divorce attorney. I honestly saw no benefit to the tickets. From the tickets I've seen, they are shallow or short lived or unrealistic that it will really make a difference in scouting. Write a ???.. Do a ###. The only tickets that seem to last long are the "Volunteer to run the ### at the district level". Most others just fade away and fairly quickly at that.
    Last edited by fred johnson; 06-19-2013, 04:57 PM.


    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      Like POR's the tickets take a hit from the abuse of their usage. In the old program there were a number of goals and one had 2 years to finish them all. With that being said, one of my ticket items did take 2 years to finish and I worked on it every week for those two years. I was ASM responsible for the NSP at that time and I went back and worked with Webelos boys and crossed them over to the troop. Unfortunately they had no Web II's and so I worked for 2 years with the Web I's. It was a great experience and I would not have done it without WB pushing it. On the other hand today's WB "tickets" can get knocked out in a weekend or two. Just not the same. Like the watered down Eagle program, WB isn't far behind.

  • #33
    Go to Wood Badge because you aren't afraid to try something new, because it is part of the training continuum, and because it was started by RSS Baden-Powell. It's not about you, it's about the betterment of Scouting. It's a little odd to hear what amounts to " I'm too good for Wood Badge." In another thread, one asked, "IS Scouting becoming too prissy?" Not if the people in it aren't prissy.


    • #34
      So is Woodbadge responsible for the Prissy Troops????? I think it is at least partly responsible....

      I am an advocate for Advance Outdoor skills course AOS...... To be an SM you are required to take this course....To be an ASM you must take IOLS.....

      Because in this day and age.....More and More gals and inexperience men are stepping up to be SM and simply don't have a clue.


      • StewScouts
        StewScouts commented
        Editing a comment
        Basement - Comments like these just sound like trolling to me - trying to get a rise out of good people.

      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        It is the truth....Sorry you don't like it.

        How many SM's do you know who were not boy scouts???? I know a couple....One is a great guy and excellent outdoors man.....The other two not so much and could use the AOS course.... Search the Archive I have a thread about it.

    • #35
      I'm going to agree with Basement on this.

      One reason we don't have a lot of outdoor oriented troops in GS is because we lost all our die-hard campers to retirement. Many of our new GS leaders don't have outdoor skills or even experiences from being Scouts, outdoor enthusiasts, or in the military. We have weak and inconsistent outdoor training. Many people don't feel competent and they don't want to take the risk.

      IOLS, or whatever it's called now, is asked to do too much. If an SM doesn't have solid first year skills, how can he model and teach them?


      • #36
        The gal I married was a Daisy GSUSA scout. She grew up in the Twin Cities. However, she chose a life dedicated to nature. She holds a degree in Forestry, spent many years in Alaska working for US Forestry Service, and is a Master Gardener. She is an avid kayaker and looks her best in blue jeans, flannel shirt and hiking boots. We got married in Wisconsin in January and her only complaint was it wasn't snowing for our outdoor wedding.

        All outdoor skill, love and preferences are all learned along the way in one's life journey. I was fortunate to have an outdoorsy family growing up. But that is not a prerequisite for scouting. I have enjoyed sun-baked afternoons in a canoe fishing the BWCA and I have had to learn how to run a chainsaw to cut the roads clear at the campground after the tornado rolled through. I wouldn't trade the journey for anything in the world.

        The outdoor program of BSA (as it once was) isn't for the faint-hearted, but it could be. Sometimes dragging a kid out of the video game room in the basement out into the sunshine is an adventure in itself. Not all parents are convinced it's what's best for their mush-brained kids.

        Give me a Philmont contingent of what BP calls Real Scouts and I'll show you a trip of a lifetime.

        Even if a future SM has AOS and IOLS, it doesn't mean he/she's ready. One has to have the heart for adventure to make it work.


        • #37
          WOW, I guess I went through a different course than all of you did. I am a firm believer in the course, so much so that I am in the middle of Staffing my second course. True enough that they push it push it, push it, and yes the presentations at events where all involved are already beaded are tiresome at best. My Wood Badge Experience brought me a great many things, first among them was the guidance it gave me in transitioning from 24 years in the Military to Civilian life. In the realm of Scouting, all of my duties are now at the District and above level, but I have served as ASM and SM on more than one occasion, Wood Badge lets me go into a Unit and see what is wrong(if anything) and I can as a Commissioner GUIDE those Units to the correct path. Yes, it is based in Corporate Training, yes, Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing are stressed over and over, because they are important, even a Scouter with little experience in the program, should be able to recognize the Stages of Team Development and guide the rest to a satisfactory conclusion. Lastly, but certainly not leastly, I would point out the lasting and deep Network of friends I have acquired through Wood Badge, they have in many cases become extensions of my own family...:-D


          • #38
            Just last week.....

            The time is 10 PM at an unnamed scout camp after a day of rain and lightning.

            Picture an indoor Evening campfire program due to bad weather.
            Picture dining hall full of wet boy scouts numbering about 200 sitting on the floor....
            picture their also wet leaders.....
            Picture outdoor temps in the mid 80s and 100% humidity light fog/mist hanging in the air.
            Picture no AC.
            Picture a Beading Ceremony that went 48 minutes long including calling all the woodbadger from the audience to the front for a round of Gilwell.....Yes I timed it.....

            WAY OUT OF LINE AGAIN.

            The boys could have cared less


            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              Unfortunately, Word Economics seems to have been left off the syllabus at Woodbadge. When a Woodbadger starts his speech it is time to excuse yourself for the restroom.

            • eaglewolfdad
              eaglewolfdad commented
              Editing a comment
              Just had the same thing happen at our Cub Scout Day Camp. The after lunch speaker was delayed for a beading ceremony. The good news was that it only took 20 minutes, the bad
              news was that you had over 200 cubs of all ages sitting in the sun watching something that they knew nothing about nor cared. I still don't understand why someone would put on a uniform in the middle of the day and drive out to camp to receive beads in front of people they did not even know.

            • JoeBob
              JoeBob commented
              Editing a comment
              It's the old 'Lead by Example' thingie:
              1- Don't know your audience.
              2- Don't respect their time. Your parade is more important.
              3- Feed them pablum that they won't understand and that doesn't apply to them.

          • #39
            The beading ceremony needs to go away.....

            The over blown equivelent to 5 eagle projects.....

            I will repeat again.......What adult worth his weight can't do 5 eagle projects in 18 months....... Oh then there are the really bad ticket items.....Attempt to lose weight.....Date night with the wife......Attempt to spend time with daughter......

            I just don't get the over blown pomp and circumstance......

            To me it is just marketing......
            Last edited by Basementdweller; 07-03-2013, 12:30 PM. Reason: spelling


            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              I have seen so many of these things in the past few months I am starting to get the idea these guys bead them selves once for each ticket item.

              Oh, and I have news for you. We already know what a Turks knot is, I don't need a five minute explanation !

          • #40
            In my best imitation of Father Guido Sarducci, "I blama myselfa". I knew there was a risk that starting this thread would just bring the complaints and I have to admit my amusement at the dark humor of a lot of this so I'm not saying you guys need to stop it necessarily. BUT in the spirit of rekindling the original intent of the thread, ...thinking.....oh, what the heck, just carry on.


            • #41
              Pack....The dining hall had to be 100 degrees with 120% humidity not to mention the smell of wet man beast....the boys were simply done and wanted to go to bed.....

              Back to the original post Why Woodbadge???? so you too can have a ceremony just like the one mentioned above and like KDD absolutely loves and adores.


              • #42
                Notice how these ceremonies are IMPOSED on people, no one is ever INVITED to attend. There is never an announcement that they will occur, never on the agenda. "There are a bunch of unsuspecting suckers sitting there politely, I have captive audience! My chance to bore them with stories of the Zulus, the Boar War and ancient customs of British Military Service. Yeah ! My lucky day."


                • JoeBob
                  JoeBob commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I'd find the ancient customs of the British Military interesting...

                  But only if you can tie a Turk's Head knot in less than 5 minutes while we watch!

              • #43
                I plan on never doing woodbadge. I'm sorry but I prefer to spend my time on the actual scouts then going off and taking some more boring training.

                Thanks to GSUSA and BSA not excepting each other's training courses I have been trained and re-trained. I spent all of IOLS trying to teach someone who knew nothing of the T-1st class skills. And I'm sorry but standing in front of a group of 50 people and holding up ropes and showing them all at once how to tie a certain knot is NOT how you teach someone how to tie a knot. Did I learn anything from IOLS - nope. All it did was give me a "trained" patch on my arm yippee.

                And I hate all the crap about women and them not making for good SM's... sorry to break it to ya, but I have had several of the men in our troop come up to me and tell me I'm the best SM the troop has had since they can remember and considering one of them has been around since the formation of the troop I take that compliment with great honor.

                Of course I'm not a typical scouter... I don't give a darn about earning and wearing special awards and knots and whatever else they come out with for adults to make them look special... I prefer to go on a campout with my scouts and see a new scout that just learned a knot the previous meeting actually using it and not needing any help with it and then waiting for the next batch of new scouts to come and see that scout now teaching those knots. And I liked a recent facebook picture that was sent to me of a birthday party of one of our younger scouts and to see that we had boys from all the patrols there including a couple of the ones going into their senior year (a couple others had to work and couldn't get it off with the short notice he gave them or they would've been there too) I mean how many boys turning 12 have boys turning 18 come to their party? and how many boys turning 18 go to a 12 years olds party??? My scouts did and I love it!

                So what is woodbadge going to do for me? Other than take money out of my pocket?


                • qwazse
                  qwazse commented
                  Editing a comment

                  Yep. The IOLS world is messed up. Nuff said.

                  The one good thing about WB, if it is successful in recruiting across the area, is that you stand a good chance of meeting one or two female adult leaders who've been through the same gauntlet you have. Moreover you get a little time working with some "good old boys" and reshaping their opinions ... making it easier for the next mom/older sister. That quantity and quality of time is not offered anywhere else in scouting.

                  That said, in your position, I would wait until you know your ASMs can carry the unit for the weekends you'll be away. That's the real cost: time away from you unit. As much as I liked my patrol of old crows, I missed those weekends and evenings with the youth in my crew.

              • #44
                Jay K ... It's not about being too good for Wood Badge. And I did take it because it was part of the curriculm. Essentially to complete the checklist and to follow the program. I also agree that it's about the betterment of scouting.

                BUT ... My Wood Badge was way way too much class room. Just like my IOLS which was also way way too much class room.

                Where Wood Badge was very useful to me was ... In learning how a troop functions. Marching. Singing songs. Gathering in the morning. Assigning jobs. Learning how to stack the pans in the cook kit. Somewhat how to run a PLC. Seeing how the cooks cooked. DOING THINGS. THAT'S HOW SCOUT LEARN AND THAT'S HOW ADULT LEADERS LEARN TOO.

                The classroom content was way too much and forgotten before the weekend was thru. Especially as I had already studied those concepts as part of being a professional. Only one of my tickets I can remember now even though they were all work and that's because I'm still doing that extra job.

                I could have really really used a course that was more outdoor oriented to develop that outdoorsman. Let's cut wood with an axe. Let's tip a canoe. Let's get this injured scout cared for and to the hospital.


                The biggest issue I have with Wood Badge is the same issue many have with Eagle Scout. Over promotion and wasting people's time who already know about it. Way too often Wood Badge promotion was about the betterment of Wood Badge. Over hype. Similar to Eagle Scout. We over-hype Eagle Scout to the detriment of Eagle Scout.


                • #45
                  Why Woodbadge? When I staffed the course almost two years ago, I asked that question of the 50 or so participants, and here is (unedited) what some of them wrote:::
                  “REASONS WHY I TOOK WOOD BADGE” (or, Why YOU should take Wood Badge)

                  *I took away a lot of ideas from everyone else, not just the staff.
                  *It reminds me of how much fun Scouting can be.
                  *The fellowship.
                  *It helps to build leadership in my Troop.
                  *My sense of obligation makes me want to payback to Scouting.
                  *Self-empowerment. I can do more, because I can.
                  *To grow spiritually.
                  *It keeps the Pack trainer off my back.
                  *It’s my Eagle. To accomplish it as my special project.
                  *To hear awesome bugling.
                  *To learn leadership skills.
                  *A chance to play and camp as an adult.
                  *Train to make better project planning.
                  *Gives you the BIG picture of Scouting, not just the day to day stuff.
                  *Gets you in a Scout Spirit atmosphere.
                  *Looking for the “AHA” moments. Found’em.
                  *Make the transition from Cub Scout to Boy Scout more seamless.
                  *Gain in understanding the “other” Scout.
                  *I am not alone.
                  *Seeking ‘Personal Growth’, it’s not just about the boys and girls, but adults too.
                  *It renews your energy for Scouting.
                  *Big chance, not just happenstance, to interface with lots of other Scouters.
                  *“A raven is like a writing desk”.
                  *Supreme networking.
                  *Observing excellent exampling of Scout leading..
                  *Learning that everyone has their own strengths and talents and weaknesses – that the group can often accomplish more together than anyone singularly.
                  *To experience the very best in leadership (what they told me before I came!). I think I did.
                  *I gained tools to look at one’s past to be a better leader in the future.
                  *You can’t help your Scouts “get it” until you “get it”, and Wood Badge is where I “got it”.
                  *“Rehydrate” for Scouting souls: Water for the physical body, Wood Badge for the “Scouting” body.
                  *For the Coffee.
                  *Obtain a deeper understanding of the purpose of Scouting.
                  *If you choose to do something, if you volunteer to do something, don’t you want the best skills to enable you to do that something the very best way possible? Why do it half way?
                  *To benefit from them that have “been there and done that”.

                  The ones that did not respond? Well, I can't report wht they didn't tell me.


                  • skeptic
                    skeptic commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Alot of work, but it was very well received for a number of years here. Do a Show-N-Do. If you can find someone to coordinate it properly, you can put the most asked for real skills out there for the taking. Ours began with the gathering and patrol assignments. Then they learned to do a woggle and put on the event neckerchiefs using their new slide. They were given a half hour to come up with their name and make a flag from offered materials. The rest of the day, they worked within that patrol learning basics of pioneering, map and compass, knife and axe, first aid, fires and stoves, cooking demo which included their making their own lunch using the tinfoil method, and a few other things that changed year to year. Also had demo of dutch oven, completed pioneering devices, woodcarving, a few memorabilia displays and short history discussion, and so on. We started with three patrols the first time. The last time we had nine and turned them away. But, the persons doing the grunt work got burned out, and no one was able to fill the gap well. For seven years though, we had a really great event. Keep hoping someone with the time and skills will bring it back. I admittedly simply do not have the needed organizational skills at that level.

                  • Basementdweller
                    Basementdweller commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Bugling????? Coffee?????get what at woodbadge, paper pushing?????empowerment?????camp as an adult????? Seriously for $300 bucks those are reasons????

                    Its my eagle????really....
                    Keep my pack trainer off my back.....

                    You know what I think of the AHa moments in woodbadge.....for folks have never experienced adversity or had to accomplish anything in their lives. Facebook folks.

                    I am gonna say half of those responses border on tragic.

                    The list is embarrassing. You come away from the BSA's premier leadership course and all you can say is the bugling and coffee were good?????

                  • desertrat77
                    desertrat77 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Whew. What a list.

                    Alas, the spirit of WB continues to escape me. I'll struggle on, though, in my un-beaded, unwashed state.