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18 year old Scout can now be .... what?

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  • 18 year old Scout can now be .... what?

    The Troop I serve has it's 1st Eagle Scout, that has turned 18 (been in Scouting since he was a Tiger Cub).

    I see on the Merit Badge Councilor form he can sign up with council to be a Merit Badge Councilor.

    I think paperwork has been submitted to register him in the Troop as an ASM (or at least will be aby recharter).

    I think I read that every other adult position within the Troop needs to be 21. Is that correct?

  • #2
    An 18 yearold can be a ASM.

    It is the only position in a Troop that he can hold.

    Of course he can register as a youth in a Venturing Crew until he is 21.

    Comment


    • #3
      Straight from the Adult Leader Application:

      "All leaders must be 21 years of age or older, except assistant Scoutmasters, assistant den leaders, assistant Cubmasters, assistant Webelos den leaders, and assistant Varsity Scout coaches, who must be 18 or older."

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, all he can do is register as ASM, that's on paper.. He also will need to do the required training for ASM by the time it is required to re-register.

        Internally in our troop, we figure out what the youth wants to do, and if there is a need for that type of position, we let him do it. My son from 18 (now 20) has been on the committee as the Outdoor Coordinator. Another boy from 18 has been an assistant to the Advancement coordinator and they work out the team effort. A young woman (19) is our Saftey coordinator for the troop. Then all the rest are just doing the ASM thing. They all need to be re-registered as ASM, but we as a unit give them the leeway to choose what interests them.

        I kindof understand the ASM thing, as they are to report under the SM until 21, but I kindof don't as in "What is so difficult about a committee position that make it have to be 21 or over?.. The youth on our board would rather report to the CC and therefore do. To me the only 2 jobs I see in a troop needing to be 21 or over should be SM & CC.. Likewise for Cubscouts CM & CC.. Ventures maybe not as their youth are up to 21 so to have them be on the committee may be not right.. can't think of the term.. but sort of like someone on a board giving a contract to their own private company..

        Some are also finding interesting postions at the district level. He can't be a voting member of the district committee, but they never turn down helpful hands.

        I will be looking for some between the ages of 18-21 to be some of my district trainers. They know the Boy scout program, and adults respond well to a young man if he presents himself professionally during the training.

        Comment


        • #5
          He is a Crew member (Our CO has a Pack, Troop and a Crew).

          I know he just completed ASM training.

          He has been given the council Merit Badge Counselor form.

          The Outing Chair ASM for the Troop we serve wants him to work with him on activity/event planning with the PLC ...

          I also suggested as a Crew member he get the LNT Trainer course when it comes up and help with that as a "Crew member", doing LNT for the Crew/Troop/Pack.

          Comment


          • #6
            Moose,
            if the under 21 yo is OA chapter chief, he sits on the district committee and votes when he attends. This is how it was done in 4 of the 5 councils I served in. wasn't invovled on the district in the 5th one, so I cannot tell. Mostof the time they didn't show though.


            Also don't know about Venturing youth as I've never seen one attend.

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting little tidbit of knowledge.

              So no one under 21 can be a voting member of the troop or district committee, unless they are the OA chapter cheif, then he can have a vote on the district committee.

              Comment


              • #8
                Not sure why voting on the committee is such an issue. Our perspective is the committee approves the troops program, which means they work for the SM+ASM's. Our CC comes and says "what do you need?" SM+ASM's say "X Y Z", the MC's come to a consensus on how to best make it happen. Not much to vote about!

                ASM's have a lot of lattitude as to where they can serve (including Jambo troops, which I don't think are available to MC's).

                Comment


                • #9
                  A quick Google search returned this: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34405.pdf which is the BSA Merit Badge Counselor Application Form with a revision date of 2001. It shows the age requirement as 18 years old so it has been this way for at least 9 years. I don't see the problem here. You say this young adult Scouter is a highly qualified individual, no? He has been involved in Scouting since he was a Tiger Scout and has remained dedicated enough to the program to earn Eagle Scout.

                  Yet, somehow he should have to sit back for three years and cool his heels some and learn some more maturity and about life in some other ways before he can return his expertise and knowledge back to the youth in the Scouting program.

                  Why is that?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Troop committees conduct the "business" of the troop. I suspect that BSA says no to committee member until 21 for legal reasons, but I don't know that for a fact.

                    As far as the Chapter Chief being on the district committee, I'd like to see where that is stated. Mind you, I'm not opposed to it......it is just that as Chapter Adviser and district committee member, I've never heard of it. I can't get him to attend chapter meetings as it is, so getting him to district committee meetings ain't happening.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nachamawat - No 18 - 21 year olds can be ASM's, and be merit badge counselors. Just can't be committee members.


                      qwazse - All troops run their committee differently. The following link show the CC and the committee above the SM..
                      http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Troop_organizational_chart

                      Our troop have the CC & committee vote equal to the SM.. Most times we come to an agreement (sometimes with arguement).. If we can not come to an agreement then the COR makes the decision.

                      Your troop has the Committee under the SM..

                      Our older scouts just want nothing to do with our SM, they would rather work for and report to the CC.. In being in the committee they would like to have a vote, so they feel equal. And yes we do vote on things, that sometimes influence the way we want the program to go.

                      Such as lately it is ..
                      SM you have to start taking the boys camping, not just to day outings.
                      SM you can't continue to cancel the camping trips due to lack of planning.
                      SM you have to stop controlling everything and let the boys run the troop.
                      SM your SM minutes cannot ramble on for 15-20 minutes of the troop time.

                      on and on and on.. Stupid things that the committee should not have to be dictating.

                      Before this SM, with our other SM's.. There would be votes on things about the adult leadership. Such as what training they needed to go on troop events.. Or votes on what the troop would fund for events and what the boys must raise Like we will pay for the car gas, but the scouts must fund the cost of the white water trip.

                      The 18-20 year olds, just want to be a part of something that will attempt to bring back a good program to the troop, as they were raised in the troop with a good program, and want to find ways to save the troop they are loyal to. So they want to voice their opinion with a vote in the committee, if that is what they have.

                      They also want to do something for the troop, and if you are an ASM under the current SM you hang around at a Troop meeting in the back and just talk. If your on the committee you get a job and can do something productive for the troop.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        SR,
                        In the councils I've been in, the Lodge chief is a member of the executive board. Districts mirror their council boards, hence the CC is a member.

                        To be honest i've only had 2 CCs attend. 1 got disgusted with the way the adutls were acting, and he and his dad, who replaced me as CA, decided not to attend anymore.

                        But yes I've seen it happen.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My 18 year old Eagle scout/ASM completed his position specific training and has just finished with the educational part of WB and is working on his ticket. He is looking to get the OA reactivated in our district as a ticket item.

                          "They also want to do something for the troop, and if you are an ASM under the current SM you hang around at a Troop meeting in the back and just talk. If your on the committee you get a job and can do something productive for the troop."

                          This makes it sound like something bad....

                          The SM and ASM's all sit in the back and chats while the boys run the troop. But when called upon they work with the boys to support them in whatever they decide.

                          If the 18 year old wishes to be on the committee as some sort of ad hoc assistant to the assistant committee member who works with adults making decisions and directing the boys, that's okay too. I don't see this kind of committee being conducive to a boy-led program, but it might work just fine for an adult-led program. Most of my adults don't have jobs in the troop other than help the boys do their jobs. I'm thinking only the CC and SM have "jobs" The CC works with the adults and the SM works with the boys.

                          As it stands right now, the committee in my troop has not "taken a vote" on anything for the past 3 years. Does that mean they don't do anything? Nope, they're very busy helping the boys get the best out of their decisions. Right now after a very successful popcorn sale, the committee is working with the QM who is expected to do a solid inventory of troop assets and then put together a "needs list" to better outfit the different patrols. After the QM puts in the needs list, the committee will authorize payment based on the QM's report. But they may offer all kinds of suggestions for the QM to consider, such as prioritizing the purchases, getting the best deal, knowing where to shop, etc. In the end the QM will decide and submit the receipts to the treasurer of the committee who is pre-authorized to pay the payment based on what the boys say.

                          The committee also does all the BOR's in which the ASM would be ask to sit out, so that important function would not be available to him either.

                          Operating like a 3rd ASM on a jambo contingent, he is better serving with hands on with the boys, rather than sitting in on committee meetings where he's basically a non-member anyway, unless it's an adult-led program.

                          Your mileage may vary.

                          Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            jblake -
                            The SM and ASM's all sit in the back and chats while the boys run the troop. But when called upon they work with the boys to support them in whatever they decide.

                            This may be your troop. Our troop, is the ASM sit and talk, because the SM is running the troop, not the boys.

                            Yes, it has become an Adult run program. Wasn't always this way, just fell into it after our last SM resigned. The SM may run the troop, but he is very disorganized. My son does alot being the outdoor coordinator. Of course it is mostly done 2 days before an event, because no one will let him know who is going on the event until then. Or the SM do something that causes our son twice the work it would have been had the SM not stuck his nose in it.

                            Until we can get a SM to hand the reins back to the boys, and to be organized enough to get the committee the info they need to do what they need to do, it is an effort for the committee to organize at last minute what needs to get done, things maybe the scouts could have done.. At least the committee is handing it back to the 18-21+ young adults, by moving them into the committee. But, can't do much about the boys in the troop.

                            You can issue all the rules you want, this will let the SM know you are unhappy, but if he is the wrong personality for the job, not much you can do to vote him a new personality. Nice guy really, just all wrong for this position. Can not delegate to save his life, nor organize to save it either.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Moose,

                              Sorry to hear that's the way it is in your troop. I held out for 15 years in a troop like that and when I finally realized it was a lost cause, I moved on.

                              I, too, am totally disorganized most of the time. That's why I teach my boys to be organized. I just find all the things I do a lousy job at and teach my boys to do it correctly.

                              It's tough following a boy-led SM because one feels they have some pretty big shoes to fill. With the new SM, it might not be a bad idea to have the committee assist him in turning the reins back over to the boys. He may be trying to show he's as good as the former SM and is getting too in over his head. The harder he tries the worse it gets kind of thing.

                              The CC needs a few cups of coffee in closed session with the SM and just talk about the hopes and dreams of what needs to be done to have the best possible troop for the boys. If this SM just isn't the right personality for the position, then that could be part of the discussion.

                              Hope things improve for your troop. Been there, done that, and it's no fun.

                              Stosh

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