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  • Age limit for Venturers gets cut...

    The Boy Scouts of America will limit the maximum age of youth in its programs to 18 years old in 2015, down from 21, the organization told NBC News late Tues...

  • #2
    It's tough trying to maintain a hypocritical double-standard. It was a pain in the butt long before it became a political gay pawn in the game.

    Even the article points out the obvious. The Boy Scouts of America will limit the maximum age of youth in his programs to 18 years old. Remarkably and to the wonderment of all is the same age of adulthood in every other aspects of society (except alcohol) as defined by federal law. Everyone is so wrapped up in the gay loophole, they don't see the elephant in the room. Duh, when you turn 18 you're an adult unless some special BSA program, with no legal backing whatsoever, says it's okay to be youth until you're 21. You can be a youth in one BSA program and an adult in another all at the same time and no one can not see any problems with this. You can be in a program at age 20 (junior in college) without a background check or adult rules like YPT having fun hanging out with girls that are freshmen in high school. I don't think this is a ploy to keep gays out as much as it is a correction to a really, really stupid policy in the first place.

    Stosh

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    • #3
      So in 2015, the minimum age for an adult drops from 21 to 18 in the BSA?:
      - two deep leadership can be two 18 year old adult leaders
      - the SM or any other adult leader can be an 18 year old.

      After all, adult means adult right?

      Comment


      • #4
        I support this. The previous rules were illogical. But this is gonna get wrapped up in the gay issue.

        Comment


        • #5
          RememberSchiff ... It is less of a change than you'd think.
          --- 18 year olds could always register as ASMs. We do it all the time. Seniors in high school registered as troop adult leaders.
          --- Two deep leadership was always fulfilled by two ASMs working as adult leaders.
          --- No change announced yet for SM. SM must still be 21 ... or so I believe.

          I'm sure there is more to come.

          This is a good fix. It was inconsistent before and made no sense.

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          • #6
            Funny ... bsa documentation ... venturing ... "What's not changing ... age of membership". LOL.

            http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pr...verview_v8.pdf

            page 3

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            • #7
              Fred J. - I agree this is an improvement. Removed is the inconsistency as to who is a youth, but there is still an inconsistency as to who is an adult.

              "Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings."

              For Venturing, it seems at 18 one is now an adult and out altogether as adult leaders must be 21. But as you note, that same person could be an ASM.

              Another $0.02

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              • #8
                Ahhh ... I sit corrected.

                Personally, I think that's good. there is a lot of maturing that happens between 18 and 21. And there is a separation that will help make sure responsibilities of a leader are fulfilled ... or at least better fulfilled.

                Comment


                • #9
                  ok the way I read the article venturing is not dropping age limit. The way I read it is that if you are 18-20 year old and participating in any scouting (sea scout, venturing, OA, am I forgetting any) that they have to meet the adult requirements. So that means if a young man is gay and under the age of 18 he can participate in all he is eligible but once he turns 18 he is not able because adult requirements don't allow men to be gay. So if not gay can continue to be involved after age of 18 whether as a scout in venturing etc or within a troop as an ASM

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RememberSchiff View Post
                    So in 2015, the minimum age for an adult drops from 21 to 18 in the BSA?:
                    - two deep leadership can be two 18 year old adult leaders
                    - the SM or any other adult leader can be an 18 year old.

                    After all, adult means adult right?
                    Hey, we can't eradicate all hypocrisy at the same time! If we set everything right all at once, someone's gonna be upset and we can't have that. According to Federal law, you can be a kid on your parents health insurance until you're 26. And most parents today think the kids don't have to move out of the basement until they're 40. In some states you can marry at 16, but it's statutory rape if your husband touches you before you turn 18. You can be 20, fight for your country on a tour of duty, but still can't get a beer because you're not "an adult". If you commit a heinous crime you can be charged as an adult if you are as young as 12.

                    Who says BSA has the corner on hypocrisy and double standards!!! They just dabble in stupidity. Others take it to an art form.

                    Stosh

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I read this like IMKathy did. You're still a venturer until 21, but you just register as an adult for those last two years of your venturing career.
                      My young adults are a confused lot as it is. This won't change that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
                        Funny ... bsa documentation ... venturing ... "What's not changing ... age of membership". LOL.

                        http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pr...verview_v8.pdf

                        page 3
                        Your documentations say there will be no membership age changes for 2014, but the proposed change will be in 2015 according to NBCNews, which is by all accounts the place to go for BSA news when it pertains to gays and other liberal causes. One must be reverent to the media gods and their proclamations on propaganda which are infallible. It's the Scout Law don't cha know.

                        Stosh

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Qwazse, I think you'll find that there are three years after reaching age 18. A whole year at the age of 18, another at 19, and finally the third year at 20.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                            Qwazse, I think you'll find that there are three years after reaching age 18. A whole year at the age of 18, another at 19, and finally the third year at 20.
                            Pack, if you think I'm going to chase down a kid for an application on the day of his/her 18th birthday, you got another thing coming. (I do try to hand out voter registrations and say, "Instead of buying smokes or porn, fill this out and run my country.") There can be up to an 11 month lag. As for the 20 year-olds, half of them have let their registrations lapse, and I frankly am so happy to see them when they come back from college, I don't check if it's before or after their 21st birthday.

                            I guess on that count, it will be a lot easier to maintain them on the roster. I had one youth drop when she aged out, then last month asked if she could sign on as co-advisor. Then asked if I could have the registrar back-date the application so that she'd have no "lapse" in membership. Had she already been a reg adult, the transition would have been more organic.

                            Other thoughts:
                            • I wonder if this qualifies them to chaperon?
                            • A few of them plan campouts independently. I wonder if they can now do that under our crew flag?
                            • I hope this doesn't lower the "fraternization" boundary!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Where the 21-years-of-age comes from is attempting to supply program to college students, which are seen as minors in many legal arenas, such as insurance.

                              These are a series of interconnected issues here, many of which have nothing to do with BSA.

                              For my 2 cents, I think:

                              1. We do not a senior scout program
                              2. We do need co-ed scouting
                              3. Boy Scout Troops do need older scouts involved
                              4. The OA does need older scouts involved
                              5. There does need to be one age that's considered adult for BSA
                              6. We do need Venture/Explorer programs as part of our offering.

                              My solution:

                              Not all states have the same ago of majority, we all assume it's eighteen, because that most common, it not uniform. Eighteen-year-olds today lack the maturity of years past. The ages of maturity and adulthood have changed, historically speaking, typically going up.

                              With all of this having been said, the uniform "adult age" in BSA should be 21. Boy Scout advancement should be left as it, and the program ages left as is, with 18-20 year old being JASM's, who focus on youth mentoring and development. Venture and Explorer programs can be left as it (as far as age). No to spin things off, but all BSA programs need to go coed.

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