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Degrees at University of Scouting

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  • #16
    I never thought about it like that, qwazse. Thanks

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    • #17
      As for "degrees" and patches, why recognition, are they not to encourage? If so, why do we not wish to encourage these as opposed to those? ​Will "those" discover our secrets? Are we afraid "they" will allow students in real universities when they are under 21 - or, God forbid, under 18? Too late. A Scout in the troop I work with will graduate from high school into being nearly a junior at university.

      The best participants in one of my sessions at a Baden-Powell Institute last year (Wilderness Survival and Troop Program) were fifteen. I don't think any of their fellow participants would have begrudged them a scrap of paper, however fancy.

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      • #18
        Did you go to get training, or did you go to get a patch? You can get the patch on eBay.

        Since all of the degrees say "Scouters" rather than "participants;" from your wording "...UoS offers many adult trainings, and in the MTC they have classes for Venturing youth members...;" from the website description "supplemental training for all volunteers." it sounds like maybe the classes for youth are not part of the university; rather, they're simply offered at the same time for convenience (the space is rented, the people are there).
        If you were taking the actual College of Venturing classes, the council is doing you a favor and courtesy by opening up an adult resource to youth. Hold onto your transcript and apply the courses once you're a Scouter/volunteer.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post
          ... the council is doing you a favor and courtesy by opening up an adult resource to youth. Hold onto your transcript and apply the courses once you're a Scouter/volunteer.
          E441, you'd better apply those courses to everything you do this coming year, otherwise just tear up that certificate or whatever they did give you!

          This is where adults don't get it. In the ideal scouting program, 14-20 year olds would be taking over the staffing at every level of the organization while the rest of us sit on our hands, write checks, or advise a few key youth. Any of you old farts want to know why many 16+ year-olds leave the BSA? There is nothing to do, and they perceive that things will chug along fine without them. Why? Because only the truly brazen ones can step up without some bone-headed old fart (myself included) muscling them out of the way.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by qwazse View Post

            This is where adults don't get it. In the ideal scouting program, 14-20 year olds would be taking over the staffing at every level of the organization while the rest of us sit on our hands, write checks, or advise a few key youth. Any of you old farts want to know why many 16+ year-olds leave the BSA? There is nothing to do, and they perceive that things will chug along fine without them. Why? Because only the truly brazen ones can step up without some bone-headed old fart (myself included) muscling them out of the way.
            Dear God. This right here. Ideally the Patrol Method eliminates this issue, but in units that insist on using the made up Troop method, they need to be giving responsibility and opportunities to older boys to do more training, mentoring, and advising. Whatever it takes to challenge and engage older Scouts. If that's UoS, (gross!) then all the power to em.

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            • #21
              If either of you two think the answer to older youth retention is access to classroom training I dare say neither of you knows anything about retaining youth of any age.

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              • #22
                The reason we youth enjoyed these classes is because they were actually relevant to what we are doing. Three of the classes I took were "Beyond BSA," "Planning Meaningful Service Projects," and "The Changing Venturing Program: What's Up?"

                "Beyond BSA" was a guide to awards outside of Scouting that have requirements relevant to Scouts. Such as the Presidential Service Award, which is awarded for completing a certain number of service hours.

                "Planning Meaningful Service Projects" was a class on, you guessed it, service projects. From planning to execution. This class was not incredibly helpful to me since I just did my Eagle Project last year.

                "The Changing Venturing Program: What's Up?" was a class on how the Venturing program is being changed, and when we can expect these changes to come into effect here in the Middle Tennessee Council.

                Scouter99 said
                "If either of you two think the answer to older youth retention is access to classroom training I dare say neither of you knows anything about retaining youth of any age. "

                That is both correct and incorrect. Access to classroom training is not the sole answer to retaining older youth, but when the training provided is as relevant and helpful as the above classes, it sure doesn't hurt, rather, it helps us to become more involved than we already are.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post
                  If either of you two think the answer to older youth retention is access to classroom training I dare say neither of you knows anything about retaining youth of any age.
                  Well, maybe my older youth are messed up in the head, like E441. (Well, maybe not quite so messed up .. at least they know to find the dutch-oven course on their lunch break. ) But, as far as I can tell, there is nothing particularly special about any BSA "adult" training. My older youth want to know what I'm thinking. They want to shoulder some of my responsibilities. They want to make scouting better.

                  To do that, they need to listen (and talk back to) our council's scouters (volunteers and pros). And they need to do so in a variety of settings: both classroom and field.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by qwazse View Post

                    How are these council-specific programs related to the "College of Commissioner Science" degrees? I honestly have no clue about Laurel Highlands Council, but I'll let you all know when I find out.
                    In this area, there is no relationship. It is simply "other training" on a variety of topics hopefully useful and interesting to Scouters - and for some sessions Scouts - in various aspects of Scouting.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Kudu View Post
                      I've always thought that we could get Wood Badge back from the Den Leaders if we moved "leadership skills" to the University of Scouting, and then forced everyone to call them "Doctor."
                      You define so much of what's wrong with BSA training in this one statement. A big thumbs up on this one!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by qwazse View Post

                        E441, you'd better apply those courses to everything you do this coming year, otherwise just tear up that certificate or whatever they did give you!

                        This is where adults don't get it. In the ideal scouting program, 14-20 year olds would be taking over the staffing at every level of the organization while the rest of us sit on our hands, write checks, or advise a few key youth. Any of you old farts want to know why many 16+ year-olds leave the BSA? There is nothing to do, and they perceive that things will chug along fine without them. Why? Because only the truly brazen ones can step up without some bone-headed old fart (myself included) muscling them out of the way.
                        Adults have a role as resources.

                        If adults exclude youth from being allowed to teach, including stretching a bit, that's not helpful. My first Scoutmaster always had youth member of his Scoutmaster Basic Training staffs because: 1) They could do it; 2) They liked to do it; and 3) They helped sell adults on the concept that youth could handle responsibility. If you honestly believed in the Patrol Method, how could you not see youth as staff?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TAHAWK View Post

                          Adults have a role as resources.

                          If adults exclude youth from being allowed to teach, including stretching a bit, that's not helpful. My first Scoutmaster always had youth member of his Scoutmaster Basic Training staffs because: 1) They could do it; 2) They liked to do it; and 3) They helped sell adults on the concept that youth could handle responsibility. If you honestly believed in the Patrol Method, how could you not see youth as staff?
                          I think you're making qwazse's point for him. And I agree. We have youth that staff Wood Badge every fall, and hopefully I'll be one of them this year.
                          And the Patrol Method fine, but it only works the way it's supposed to when the Scouts have a certain mindset.
                          Patrols make up a Troop, which means the patrol members, especially the patrol leaders, need to realize, that in the end, everybody is on the same team. Unity needs to be an emphasis.
                          People also need to realize that just because someone has the title of a leadership position, that doesn't necessarily make them a leader or give them leadership experience.

                          And in the end, aren't we all on the same team?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            "And in the end, aren't we all on the same team?"

                            Since at least 1930 and to this date, the answer is, "No." You are in the same league. Patrols are the teams in which Scouts are to play the game of Scouting. Together, the form a league called a "troop."

                            From current B.S.A. pronouncements:

                            [The patrol members] interact in a small group outside the larger troop context, working together as a team and sharing the responsibility of making their patrol a success.
                            [emphasis added]

                            A patrol takes pride in its identity, and the members strive to make their patrol the best it can be.
                            Patrols will sometimes join with other patrols to learn skills and complete advancement requirements. At other times they will compete against those same patrols in Scout skills and athletic competitions.
                            [emphasis added]

                            Patrol spirit is the glue that holds the patrol together and keeps it going. Building patrol spirit takes time, because it is shaped by a patrol's experiences—good and bad.
                            It is, after all, the PATROL Method:
                            While the Patrol Method is primarily about patrols, it is also about how those patrols, working through the Patrol Leaders’ Council, operate the troop created from those patrols – the "Youth-led Troop."
                            Dead on about titles, I think. "Who is the leader," we used to ask in the district-level leader training weekend. I forget the official answer. The accurate answer is, "Whoever leads." Titles are of secondary importance at best when the "troops" can vote with their feet, Appoint or elect someone who is not the leader and the Scouts look at the Leader every time the Title gives instruction so they can see what the Leader thinks they should do. And that's the best outcome. Worse, the patrol falls apart.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by TAHAWK View Post
                              "And in the end, aren't we all on the same team?" Since at least 1930 and to this date, the answer is, "No." You are in the same league. Patrols are the teams in which Scouts are to play the game of Scouting.
                              Nice sentiments, but "patrol" is not a method of venturing. Nor of O/A or Explorers. These are youth who in one way or another are recognized for "coming into their own" in the world of scouting. They see themselves as much part of the "adult" team as anything. They have boundary issues .... In a good way.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by qwazse View Post
                                Nice sentiments, but "patrol" is not a method of venturing. Nor of O/A or Explorers. These are youth who in one way or another are recognized for "coming into their own" in the world of scouting. They see themselves as much part of the "adult" team as anything. They have boundary issues .... In a good way.
                                Because the topic was the "patrols" of a "troop" being a single team, please help me understand your comment about Venturing, OA, and Explorers. I may not be awake yet.

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