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  • Degrees at University of Scouting

    I don't know how it is in other Councils, but here in the Middle Tennessee Council, we have University of Scouting. UoS offers many adult trainings, and in the MTC they have classes for Venturing youth members. I attended UoS as a Venturer last month. Now obviously, the Doctorate Degree recipient must be at least 18 years of age, because they must complete Wood Badge. But should they continue to exclude Venturing youth from being able to receive the Bachelors and Masters Degrees?
    UoS also has "Degrees" that may be earned by participants:

    "Bachelors Degree Requirements
    Scouters must earn at least six credit hours from the courses offered in UoS. Any combination of courses from the four colleges is acceptable.
    Scouters must be trained in their registered position.

    Masters Degree Requirements

    Scouters must have earned a UoS Bachelor degree.
    Scouters must earn an additional six credit hours since earning their Bachelor degree.

    Doctorate Degree Requirements

    Scouters must have completed a UoS Master degree.
    Scouters must have earned their Wood Badge beads (please display to UoS Chancellor) or submit an application after earning your beads.
    Scouters must earn an additional six credit hours since earning their Master degree, including at least three credits from the teaching requirement, below.
    Scouters must teach University of Scouting courses totaling three credit hours since earning their Master degree or, with the approval of the current UoS Chancellor, serve on the UoS Staff. "

    Now obviously, the Doctorate Degree recipient must be at least 18 years of age, because they must complete Wood Badge. But should they continue to exclude Venturing youth from being able to receive the Bachelors and Masters Degrees?
    Last edited by EagleScout441; 04-12-2014, 05:20 PM.

  • #2
    Are these credits transferable to Whatsamatter U ?

    I thought we dropped the silliness of beaded noobs claiming to have a Phd in Scouting years ago?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by RememberSchiff View Post
      I thought we dropped the silliness of beaded noobs claiming to have a Phd in Scouting years ago?
      Evidently not.

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      • #4
        I've always thought that we could get Wood Badge back from the Den Leaders if we moved "leadership skills" to the University of Scouting, and then forced everyone to call them "Doctor."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kudu View Post
          I've always thought that we could get Wood Badge back from the Den Leaders if we moved "leadership skills" to the University of Scouting, and then forced everyone to call them "Doctor."
          "Calling Doctor Howard, Doctor Fine, Doctor Howard"

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          • #6
            I think national is trying to standardize the UoS program so that a standard list of courses that cna be offered, and a standard number of courses and work can be done to get the degrees.

            While the degree portion of UoS is a bit silly, some of the courses I took were very good, and I got positive feedback form the one course I taught: How to Keep and Retain Older Scouts.

            But someone may have complained when I said that maybe another troop or Venturing crew may serve the needs of the Scout better, so it's better to offer that option and keep the Scout in Scouting, than lose his interest altogether. I say that because that course was not offered this year, despite the feedback.

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            • #7
              Wow, when I read the first post I thought it was a joke (late April 1st or something) but you guys are SERIOUS! OMG!

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              • #8
                Here in St.Louis there are no degrees but in NE they had them a couple of years ago. Not sure what the requirements were but 6 hours for a BS seems appropriate.

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                • #9
                  E441, I'm really glad you (and presumably others in your crew) took advantage of UoS. I've only been able to get a couple of youth involved. I especially hope that during breaks, you offered your service as "graders" of the Dutch Oven course.

                  In principle, I think ambitious youth should be awarded accordingly. But, I would rather them get their certifications outside of the "One Day Scouting" framework. For example, I've had very bad experience transferring the CPR course I took at UoS to what I needed for BSA guard re-certification. (They didn't confirm that the medic they got to teach the course had authority from Red Cross to issue cards!) I would hate for that to happen to a youth!

                  For me, UoS degrees are a big joke, but the networking helps me be better advisor even if I don't get the pieces of paper (I can volunteer in other ways that don't need them). For youth, I would rather them work on "real world" certifications that they can be sure apply to jobs they want or schools they'd like to attend.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by qwazse View Post
                    E441, I'm really glad you (and presumably others in your crew) took advantage of UoS. I've only been able to get a couple of youth involved. I especially hope that during breaks, you offered your service as "graders" of the Dutch Oven course.

                    In principle, I think ambitious youth should be awarded accordingly. But, I would rather them get their certifications outside of the "One Day Scouting" framework. For example, I've had very bad experience transferring the CPR course I took at UoS to what I needed for BSA guard re-certification. (They didn't confirm that the medic they got to teach the course had authority from Red Cross to issue cards!) I would hate for that to happen to a youth!

                    For me, UoS degrees are a big joke, but the networking helps me be better advisor even if I don't get the pieces of paper (I can volunteer in other ways that don't need them). For youth, I would rather them work on "real world" certifications that they can be sure apply to jobs they want or schools they'd like to attend.
                    We had about 15 youth from around the Council attend, three from my crew (the three were siblings). None of us acted as "graders" in the Dutch Oven course, but a couple of the 18-20 year old "youth" Venturers were in staff positions.
                    It isn't really the fact that I want a UoS "degree", but it is the idea that Venturing youth are not eligible, just because we're youth, when we do classes just like any of the adults.

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                    • #11
                      The degrees went away in this area years ago. One council still calls it University of Scouting, but sans degrees. It's neighbor council dropped the degrees and started calling it the Baden-Powell Institute. It was interesting to see who got all upset about the degrees going away.
                      Last edited by TAHAWK; 04-17-2014, 07:48 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EagleScout441 View Post
                        We had about 15 youth from around the Council attend ... It isn't really the fact that I want a UoS "degree", but it is the idea that Venturing youth are not eligible, just because we're youth, when we do classes just like any of the adults.
                        Awesome! I honestly don't think they intentionally exclude youth. The program objective targets adults to be as knowledgeable about scouting as possible because adults often don't realize they have more to learn, so "scouter" was used in the description of the requirements. But if a youth took the same number of UoS courses -- especially if they weren't all courses geared toward youth (like ILSC, which in a perfect world would always be done at a crew level), I'm sure your course organizers would have no trouble giving him/her a certificate as well.

                        Son #2 and a buddy wound up taking VLST a few years ago (long story), and I've told adults that they are as qualified as any adult in our council to teach the course on a will-work-for-food basis.

                        Bottom line: don't feel put off by seemingly exclusionary language. Venturers have boundary issues. Everybody with any time in scouting knows that. Any commissioner would find the "problem" of an ambitious youth a good one to have!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TAHAWK View Post
                          The degrees went away in this area years ago. ... It was interesting to see who got all upset about the degrees going away.
                          How are these council-specific programs related to the "College of Commissioner Science" degrees? I honestly have no clue about Laurel Highlands Council, but I'll let you all know when I find out.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by qwazse View Post
                            Awesome! I honestly don't think they intentionally exclude youth. The program objective targets adults to be as knowledgeable about scouting as possible because adults often don't realize they have more to learn, so "scouter" was used in the description of the requirements. But if a youth took the same number of UoS courses -- especially if they weren't all courses geared toward youth (like ILSC, which in a perfect world would always be done at a crew level), I'm sure your course organizers would have no trouble giving him/her a certificate as well.
                            Bottom line: don't feel put off by seemingly exclusionary language. Venturers have boundary issues. Everybody with any time in scouting knows that. Any commissioner would find the "problem" of an ambitious youth a good one to have!
                            This year's UoS was back on March 15.
                            Here is a link to the Course Catalog which includes the Degree information:
                            http://www.mtcbsa.org/assets/forms/UOS.pdf
                            All classes in the "College of Venturing" were open to youth, except for the "Leader Forum."

                            The "Bachelor Degree" requirements state that a one must participate in six hours of courses at UoS and be current on their training for the position they are in.
                            As you can see by the Course Catalog, anyone who attends the full day at UoS will have the six hour requirement complete, the training requirement varies depending on the Scout/Scouter.
                            Not a single youth member, even if they attended the full day (as I did), received any sort of degree. The question of "Why?" was asked by multiple youth, the answer given was that youth were not eligible.
                            Now, we did receive a patch. And we also each received a fancy certificate stating that we had completed "Venturing Academy" (which looks very nice on the wall next to my Eagle Scout and Kodiak certificates).
                            But the question still stands: Why are youth not eligible for the degrees?

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                            • #15
                              First, let me get it off my chest (probably stealing BD and a few others' thunder) that this particular aspiration of yours and your friends is one of the dumbest things I've heard of yet. But it's not harming anybody, so I'm gonna pretend that I support you and set you along to acquire your left-handed smoke shifter. (Anti-hazing activists, just tape your fingers before you type!)

                              It sounds like you are trying to argue from the standpoint of fairness. Remember the thread about female venturers and O/A? The fairness argument, although sound, is not strong. You (and your friends who may be rankled by this) need to determine how "being fair" will enable your council to "be great." Then, build a solid plan to pitch it to the people who are keeping the gate.

                              For example, you could say that if your council announces that several youth did exceptional work and earned awards that have heretofore been reserved for scouters, it may inspire more adults to take time out of their busy schedule and attend UoS. If you explain to your scout executive that you are more concerned about increasing the quality of the program than having the same plaque on your wall as some adult does, you may begin to gain some traction.

                              On the course organizers' end, they might see giving the same award to youth as diluting the value of the certificate. Or, maybe they are concerned that once you all become adult scouters you won't participate in UoS because you already have the certificate from when you were a youth. You will need to figure out how to demonstrate that these risks are minimal relative to the benefits of changing policy.

                              In other words, it's not enough that it matters to you. To persuade folks, it needs to matter to them.

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