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  • Venture Crew Relationship Question

    #1
    I received the following question in an E-mail from one of my Scouts. Not sure on how to respond. Could someone more familiar with the rules and policies help:

    ====
    As you know, I am 20 years old (and will be turning 21 next month). I plan on remaining active in the crew as an adult leader. As Im sure you also know, [Name withheld] and I have been dating for the past 3 years and are engaged to be married; however she is 19 (she wont be 21 for another 19 months). Both [my fianc] and I are heavily involved in the Venture crew and both of us work on the summer camp staff at [our local council camp]. What happens when I turn 21 next month and switch over to an adult in Venturing? While we are both legally adults, I will be an adult in the Scouting program while [my fianc] will still be deemed a youth? Will [my fianc] and I have to either (a) end our relationship or (b) have one of us leave Scouting for the next year-and-a-half?

    What are the youth protection rules on this kind of situation?

    What if we were married (as we are planning on tying the knot a few months before her 21st birthday)? Can a husband and wife be involved in Venturing if one is over 21 and one is under 21?
    ====
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  • #2
    First, you should ask where they've posted a registry. You'll want to save up for their gift.

    Second, the rules weren't meant to undermine a healthy lifetime relationships.

    Needless to say they can't bunk together until they're married.

    Comment

    • #3
      I agree with Q.

      What happens if they are married and both youth, under 21????? They tent with the other adults......Or can tent separately with their friends....Best of both worlds.

      They are engaged and have a history.......So we are talking about 18 months......No biggy in my book.

      Just be up front with them about expectations.... Not sure what your crews policy is on PDA, Public Display of affection, I would just remind them of expectations.....

      Comment

      • #4
        I don't agree (surprised?).
        They're youth members, and male and female youth members don't share sleeping quarters. If one is a youth, and the other an adult, that doesn't work either. When they're both 21 and registered as adults, then go for it (I say that because simply turning 21 does not an adult Venturer make).
        It's a great question, and creates plenty of questions. Check the rules and follow them. Logical? Maybe not, but they'll have about 80 years to sleep together. What's the rush?
        BDPT00

        Comment

        • #5
          The rules of public displays of affection at Scouting functions and where they can bunk (whether they are adults or youth) is something that is easy for them to deal with.

          However in doing more research on this, I found that the Venturing Youth Protection training (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/ypt/pdf/25-026.pdf) states that:
          "The roles of volunteer adult leaders in the Venturing program require that clear boundaries be established between adult leaders and youth members. For this reason, fraternization the formation of peer-based, social relationships between adult and youth members is not permitted. This prohibition extends to Venturing crewmembers who register as adults after their twenty-first birthday."

          In reading that I seems that this loving, committed, and legal couple either needs to breakup or one of them will have to leave Scouting. Am I misinterpreting the rules on fraternization outside of Scouting here? Please advise.

          Comment

          • #6
            I just re-read the G2SS on this and it's all over the place. A surprising number of inconsistancies.

            Nonetheless, it sure seems silly to prohibit a married couple from sharing a tent, regardless of age. If the couple were the parents of a Tiger Cub it wouldn't be an issue on a pack campout. Why in a crew?

            Will this couple be required to apply the 24/7 view of YP guidelines. If the advisor/husband is obligated to apply YP rules outside of Scouting, it could be a long, cold 18 months.

            The whole "grey Scout" thing is just stupid. Why can't some common sense be applied?



            (And yes, I do know how to subtract 7 from 19. But work with me here....)

            Comment

            • #7
              Well, the first thing to find out is what the CO's view on this is.

              Second, assuming the CO has no problems, bring it up with the SE. Why not go to the top? If the SE is okay with it, then continue on as Q mentioned.

              But, if someone, somewhere, has a problem with the adult leader and his "youth" fiancee, there is another solution.

              They could become ASMs with a Troop, both adults, and no funky grey areas.

              Comment

              • #8
                ScoutmasterBradely

                you read the rules correctly, due to the way Fraterizination is defined, either the relationship ends or one of them does not register in scouting. Thems the rules, how you handle it is another thing entirely.

                I don't expect the couple to break up. The male could continue as an "unregisterd" adult who helps out, or register them and follow the Youth Protection rules and have fun

                Comment

                • #9
                  You guys are ridiculous.......


                  I would ignore the guidelines.....they are engaged for petesake.....

                  I misstated the young man could still tent with his buddies......he would need to tent with the adults.....But the young lady at till the ceremony needs to tent with the youth.


                  I wouldn't bother the SE with it.....I would ask the IH at the CO for their take......

                  I bet they won't have any issue with both being a member as long as the Youth Protection is followed.

                  So one or the other is faced with resigning from the crew.....That is just plumb dumb....and will hurt the crew.

                  Although I do like JM's solution, Both ASM with the troop.....It eliminates the Venturing confusion.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Would it not make sense to treat a married woman under the age of 21 as an adult and let her register as such?

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      What does making sense have to do with this?

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        If a young married woman wants to be treated as an adult, she can join the ladies quilting club or whatever.

                        If she wants to top rope with her single buddies and maybe wrap up her silver award on the weekends, I'm treating her as a youth. Meanwhile if her husband wants to help me get some high schoolers on the right track for planning a trip, I'm using him. He'll either be my coadvisor or (if my SE yanks my chain) my consultant - no paperwork necessary.

                        Marriage is not the same thing as a guy culling the crew for dates on the weekend. I'm not messing with holy institutions. Not ever.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Ditto what BDPT00 about sense...

                          I wouldn't put the cart before the horse. They're not married until they're married.

                          I think the male should register as an ASM in a troop and only unofficially help out, only if the CO is OK with this. YPG should of course be followed.

                          Thinking ahead, they are still quite young, and relationships can sour. One of my best friends dated his soon to be wife for 3+ years, the marriage didn't last one. They started dating in high school and got married shortly after he graduated college.

                          Seems some young adults realize shortly before marriage or soon after, they got so serious in the relationship they didn't realize there are other people in the world they may get along with better.

                          I would just be as objective as possible. Think of all the good things that you know are happening with both being active in the crew AND the worst that could happen. Be fair to the couple and the rest of the crew.

                          Definitely don't take the engagement at face value when you have others in the crew to think about.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Instead of fighting the system, consider this, just for the sake of argument ...

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Didn't mean to send before I was done. For the sake of argument, what would you do if a married couple attended Wood Badge; He's an Owl, and she's a Bear. Do they sleep together? What if she's a staffer instead? Does that matter? Just follow the rules.
                              BDPT00

                              Comment

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