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  • #61
    KDD: You could have the committee member read BSA's "Product Sales Guide". It's online; it's a short, quick read

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    • #62
      Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
      I have a question regarding the authority of the Institutional Head/Executive Director. My COR is a very experienced Scouter but is indisposed this weekend and not available for advise. Our unit is in the middle of a fundraiser and I have questions regarding both the allocating of available selling slots for scouts and the allocating of proceeds. The committee member that is organizing the fundraiser has not been entirely specific in answering some questions I have and it appears some scouts may be allocated more selling opportunities than others. The CO generally takes a hands off approach to the unit and I do not want to interfere and micromanage this volunteer. However is it within my right or duty to instruct this person to hold off on informing scouts/parents of their proceeds or "incentive awards" until the IH (me) and COR have had a chance to review the policies and procedures of the fundraiser ?
      Until BSA releases a more nuanced approah, 1-to-1 allocation of the proceeds (Johnny's sales effort resulted in X dollars, he gets X in his ISA) to individual boys is not allowed because the IRS and tax courts have issued several rulings that doing so constitutes "private benefit" to a person rather than a benefit to the troop.

      As far as allocating sales opportunities, it should be fair.

      If the volunteer running the fundraiser doesn't know how he/she is planning to staff it and how the proceeds will be used, then that person should figure it out before proceeding, and definitely shouldn't be giving half-baked answers to scouts and parents. As boomer said, that person should read the product sales guide: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/fi...ales_Guide.pdf

      As for whether or not you should climb that hill, that's a political question for you that boils down to is it worth it. We can't know that

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      • #63
        Ok so this discussion is a squabble about who gets the money.


        But the real question should be.......

        Should we be fundraising at all?


        I disagree with fundraising to pay for scout trips......or summer camps or outings of any type.

        Lets just say it seems fundamentally wrong.


        Selling popcorn candy bars for durable good such as tents is acceptable.

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        • #64
          If we want to limit the program to only those families who can afford it, yours is a perfect plan. My Troop would be cut down by about 50 percent, and maybe we want a more "elite" Scouting program.

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          • #65
            A durable scout tent that is not canvas ? BD, I am curious why you view it as fundamentally wrong. I am coming around to the idea of no private benefit, but not sure I understand you. So the Red Cross can ask for donations to fund infrastructure but not gas to drive the van ? Marching band can raise fundraiser for instruments but not for travel costs to the competition ? Or is you position unique to Scouting ?

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            • #66
              One way or another, the fundraising is gonna happen. Either every boy will do odd jobs and pay for their own fees/gas/uniforms/awards/etc.... Then donate a bunch of hand-me-downs and spare change to any kid he knows needs it or expense that everyone at the time can pitch in. Or, the unit will maintain a large budget with accounts for each boy that enables him to see if he's done enough to cover his cost to the troop for serving in it.

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              • #67
                Totally agree! A scout is thrifty, he pays his own way. Then there's the troop fund raising that covers the costs of the program and equipment, not supplemental funding of any scout's personal responsibility.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by qwazse View Post
                  One way or another, the fundraising is gonna happen. Either every boy will do odd jobs and pay for their own fees/gas/uniforms/awards/etc.... Or, the unit will maintain a large budget with accounts for each boy that enables him to see if he's done enough to cover his cost to the troop for serving in it.
                  Odd jobs are generally referred to as work or earnings, and not as fundraising.
                  If a Scout has been trained to check and see if he's done enough to cover his costs, then I think we've failed him.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                    A durable scout tent that is not canvas ? BD, I am curious why you view it as fundamentally wrong. I am coming around to the idea of no private benefit, but not sure I understand you. So the Red Cross can ask for donations to fund infrastructure but not gas to drive the van ? Marching band can raise fundraiser for instruments but not for travel costs to the competition ? Or is you position unique to Scouting ?

                    Your comparing apples and oranges my friend......

                    Red cross, delivering blood, food or disaster supplies.........Exactly how can that even be compared to little jimmy going to Philmont or the jambo......

                    I don't agree with band fundraisers for trips either.....Uniforming and instruments OK.....That trip to march in the Disney parade well not so much. Competitions are a bit of a fuzzy line....




                    So why should we expect others to finance our hobby?????

                    Fundraising for an Eagle project, Ok I get it
                    Fundraising for Equipment that will last a generation, Ok

                    Fundraising to go to Sea Base, Philmont, Northern Tier, Jamboree.....HELL NO

                    It doesn't get any more individual benefit than paying for a trip with other peoples money.......If that doesn't rub you wrong then I need to be drinking what you are.

                    It doesn't get any more selfish than that.....

                    As blake has pointed out in other threads.....the kid should be mowing grass, raking leaves or other boy sized odd jobs to finance scouting.


                    When did it become the units responsibility to find money for it's boys in the unit?
                    Last edited by Basementdweller; 04-18-2014, 01:23 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Then the lawn service company doesn't get the job and the unskilled laborer can't feed his 6 month old child. All so this scout can enjoy his hobby.

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                      • #71
                        Our youth who went to Philmont and in the process (before and after) planned two multi-tiered weekend backpacking trips for our troop, crew, AND his Philmont contingent?
                        He payed for it by a lawn bushiness that he's kept through trade school.

                        The only difference between doing it that way vs. earning the same via an ISA: the troop got ZERO dollars from his hard work. He contributed to the life of the troop in lots of other ways (the crew, not so much ... too busy mowing lawns ), so nobody complained. Had he sold the enough in popcorn and other fundraisers over a couple of years to pad his ISA for the trip, the troop would have got 'bout $1K in their general fund. That's 4 camper-ships paid in full between troop and council funds.

                        Just sayin' ...
                        Last edited by qwazse; 04-18-2014, 03:53 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                          Then the lawn service company doesn't get the job and the unskilled laborer can't feed his 6 month old child. All so this scout can enjoy his hobby.
                          If this lawn service company can't do a better job than some kid with a mower, they need to find another line of endeavor

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by qwazse View Post
                            Our youth who went to Philmont and in the process (before and after) planned two multi-tiered weekend backpacking trips for our troop, crew, AND his Philmont contingent?
                            He payed for it by a lawn bushiness that he's kept through trade school.

                            The only difference between doing it that way vs. earning the same via an ISA: the troop got ZERO dollars from his hard work. Had he sold the enough in popcorn and other fundraisers over a couple of years to pad his ISA for the trip, the troop would have got 'bout $1K in their general fund. That's 4 camper-ships paid in full between troop and council funds.
                            .
                            Hmmm, the troop as parasite; interesting model. If every Scout had their own micro-business, no-one would need camperships.

                            What does planning backpacking trips have to do with Philmont The backpacking does show leadership and character. That should not imply he somehow deserves a reward (trip to Philmont) for same.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by boomerscout View Post
                              If this lawn service company can't do a better job than some kid with a mower, they need to find another line of endeavor
                              That we are selling popcorn means the work hours at Cousin Willie's are being reduced because we have cut into their sales

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                              • #75
                                BD so with the exception of PackAlex and his most excellent kosher camp kitchen I don't know of many packs that have much in in the way of durable goods beyond a PWD track and a few jugs for hot chocolate. I guess there really isn't a need for them to sell popcorn then is there ?

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