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anyone NOT selling popcorn?

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  • #16
    Since Councils are full of high powered executives, they should be doing their own funders and sending each troop some money. Council can sponsor/host a bass fishing tournament, semi-pro or better golf tournament, a marathon, le tour de council bicycle race, clay or trap shooting competition, high dollar sponsor appreciation banquet, sailing tournament, Grand Portage relay race, celebrity auction, polo match, seek donations of boats and vehicles, put on a community wide juried arts & crafts show.

    Living off the backs of bent and broken children is just too shameful

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by EmberMike View Post
      Do a lot of units do Camp Cards? I keep hearing about them but have yet to see one in person myself. Is it a popular fundraiser?
      Our council uses the camp cards as Scout-O-Rama tickets.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by jc2008 View Post
        Somewhere you have to give back to your council and popcorn is really the easiest way to do it. if you do "other" fundraising, yes you seem to make more or as much money as you would with popcorn, but that is usually because you are keeping 100% of the profit, rather than splitting it with council. If you don't do any of the council fundraisers your unit is basically freeloading off council at that point since the registration money you pay a year goes primarily to national for registration.

        I would prefer to do camp cards over popcorn, and indeed our group does both. The way we motivate our boys is that they get allocated the majority of their profits for fees/things they need for scouting like uniforms, camp fees etc. This makes them actually sell more than if the pack just kept it all and the small percentage the pack does keep for operating expenses turns out to be quite a good chunk of money.

        It helps our boys, helps our pack and helps our council all at the same time.
        Well... in principle maybe, but really.... why must we? Is it written into our charter someplace that we must support them financially?

        I personally see very little benefit from council. Granted my view is limited, but I just don't see it.

        Sure, they process my unit's applications..... but that is really more of a service to the BSA, right?
        They operate a store so we can buy all the uniforms and trinkets.... but then we pay for all that stuff, and I'm sure there are profits made there going in some direction other than mine.
        They own the camps, but then I pay every time I go to use them.
        Any training I get is put on by volunteers.....
        It seems like the roundup staff has a small budget for incidental supplies, but that's certainly not much.....
        Last edited by blw2; 05-06-2014, 03:58 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by blw2 View Post
          ... I personally see very little benefit from council. ...
          When you have a vehicle crash on the way to camp leaving one family mourning, and four others trying to get counseling for PTSD for their kids and their health insurance giving them a runaround. Those pro's who seem rather quiet at roundtables or wherever you may see them ... they sure know how to fast-track care for your boys.

          Or a less dramatic example, maybe not relevant to leaders of packs or troops: when kids from your crew volunteer as officers at a council level. the council pro that comes along side them and helps them put together some unique council-wide programs ... he/she will make connections that you have no clue about.

          Originally posted by blw2 View Post
          ... Granted my view is limited, but I just don't see it. ....
          Have your COR attend council board meetings, review annual reports and get a grasp of what all is going on. Or, invite the council president to attend your camp and talk about what all the pro's are doing "behind the scenes." Yep, it all looks like it's all-volunteer, but often times those DE's shuttle goods and people around to help those volunteers shine.

          Maybe you'll find out that your council stinks, and you all are paying in way more than you're getting out. But ignorance not a justification for inaction.

          Back on topic: our council changed popcorn vendors for this year's sale. I like it if only for that fact that most product comes in tins.

          Comment


          • #20
            "Somewhere you have to give back to your council..."
            Let's see now...how many hundreds, maybe thousands of hours, does each of us invest in keeping those units running? And just exactly what is it that we are getting from the council? I get the program stuff from the national organization or online. The whole insurance thing could be run the same way, no need for multiple, redundant offices in every state on the remote probability that that car wreck you describe actually happens. Oops, we've been there already and thank you very much, the BSA attorneys are quick to lay this off on others (gotta keep those premiums low).
            I see the camps as a plus. So let them run on their own. There's no need for the council superstructure just for that function.

            And with regards to this grotesque reasoning: "Council may be bloated and inefficient, but if you don't want to be a part of a BSA council, go form an independent outdoor club. BSA units are part of their council, and need to kick something up."
            I'd like to know that you apply that kind of support and camaraderie to your least favorite government agencies as well, when it comes time to pay those taxes.
            If an organization is bloated and inefficient, there is little incentive to become anything else as long as we keep 'slopping the hogs'.
            When a parasite has infected an organism, there are only two alternatives to death itself, starve the parasite out or continue to live with it. It looks like you guys are perfect hosts: you know you're being parasitized and you want to continue feeding them anyway.
            Last edited by packsaddle; 05-07-2014, 11:37 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by EmberMike View Post
              Do a lot of units do Camp Cards? I keep hearing about them but have yet to see one in person myself. Is it a popular fundraiser?
              Oh, absolutely. Most have a one-time coupon attached to be used at a popular grocery. The coupon's value equals the cost of the card.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                "Somewhere you have to give back to your council..."
                And with regards to this grotesque reasoning: "Council may be bloated and inefficient, but if you don't want to be a part of a BSA council, go form an independent outdoor club. BSA units are part of their council, and need to kick something up."
                I'd like to know that you apply that kind of support and camaraderie to your least favorite government agencies as well, when it comes time to pay those taxes.
                If an organization is bloated and inefficient, there is little incentive to become anything else as long as we keep 'slopping the hogs'.
                When a parasite has infected an organism, there are only two alternatives to death itself, starve the parasite out or continue to live with it. It looks like you guys are perfect hosts: you know you're being parasitized and you want to continue feeding them anyway.
                We voluntarily associate with BSA, part of which is the outdated and outmoded Council model. I agree they should be eliminated, perhaps you need a state level council-equivalent to handle compliance with state laws, but no need for the mess we have. But until BSA national consolidates them, we either help support our council, or we are free loading off the units that do.

                But yes, I know I'm being a host to the council parasite, but I believe in the program and council does help run that, in their own inept but well meaning way. They handle the legal and logistics for our Council/District events, and I have made those a part of my programming for our unit. They also enable us to fund our program with two easy fundraisers.

                I'm all for streamlining the program, but I leave that to the board/committee that runs council, and I'm involved in my Unit and District, and that's enough. We all have a role to play.

                I accept that the good I get from Council out ways the bad, I wish they'd get better at support, and I speak to the management whenever I can, but if we don't all do our part to support the council, the council will implode. Both our council and the next one over are in dire financial straights, and I think that the right thing to do is to consolidate them, but it's not my call. In this case, I think that my obligation is to offer cheerful obedience, even if I shake my head at the silliness.

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                • #23
                  Our troop sells popcorn, and we have done Camp Cards, and we have an annual FOS presentation.
                  We also do fundraisers as the need arises. The unit Fundraising Form gets filled out and submitted to the Council office.
                  I've always looked at it as the Troop informing council that we are doing a fundraiser. I've often wondered what we would do if it was rejected. I'd imagine that we would still do the fundraiser, since the Troop, as a whole, found it necessary.

                  Just a personal gripe about the unit fundraising form - I feel that they ask for alot of information about unit finances, that really are of no concern to the council.
                  Whether our treasury has a balance of $4.00 or $40,000.00 shouldn't matter.

                  (Just so you know, if we had $40,000.00 in our treasury, we likely wouldn't need to do a fundraiser).

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Pack18Alex View Post
                    Both our council and the next one over are in dire financial straights, and I think that the right thing to do is to consolidate them.
                    I can see consolidating the purchasing departments to get better volume discounts on stuff they need to buy. However, it has been shown that decentralizing is a much better model than centralizing - more responsive to local needs instead of trying to fit the one size fits all decisions from Central City

                    Michigan seems to have gone overboard on consolidating. Has it been nothing but good for them since then?

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                    • #25
                      I really REALLY like camp cards. 50% and assist in paying or Resident Camp and Day camp !!! WIN WIN

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by boomerscout View Post

                        I can see consolidating the purchasing departments to get better volume discounts on stuff they need to buy. However, it has been shown that decentralizing is a much better model than centralizing - more responsive to local needs instead of trying to fit the one size fits all decisions from Central City

                        Michigan seems to have gone overboard on consolidating. Has it been nothing but good for them since then?
                        It depends what the purpose of the Council is. If the Council exists to provide a legal umbrella in the state and comply with state laws, one/state is sufficient. If Council exists to actual do something, then I see a purpose of decentralization.

                        That said, with a Council comes a Scout Executive (200k-400k), and several other 100k+ position, plus a number of support positions (40k range). The District Executives seems to be the front line personnel. So consolidating council increases the DE/Council ratio, which means a lower overhead. Obviously this is only true up to the point that the SE and team can't stay on top of the DE team.

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                        • #27
                          Our council (Cascade Pacific) takes in funds wherever it can. We have the annual sporting clays event someone suggested earlier...we have a 'rappel off an office building' annual event in Portland, FOS...the council slice of popcorn sales (and candy bars/meat sticks in the Spring) is only one part.

                          Now all that said, our unit last did popcorn 3 years ago. The boys knocked it out of the park and we didn't do it again the next year (we dont spend much typically, but we offset half the resident camp expense for any of them that went to camp).

                          I was the last Popcorn Kernel (while also being the Wolf Den Leader). I'm cubmaster now...and the committee couldnt find someone to be Kernel this year (and there's no way I was doing it again...that stuff took over half my house, and the constant flow of people checking product and money in and out was pretty intense). This year we sold first aid kits...did well...but I don't think thats repeatable.

                          so....guess what? We will be doing popcorn again this next year.

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                          • #28
                            Our large scout troop sells a token amount of popcorn I am assuming to appease council. By far our main fundraiser is selling nuts (peanuts, toffee peanuts, cashews, mixed nuts, chocolate covered peanuts, choc pretzels, yogurt pretzels, trailmix, etc). Bought in bulk and re-packaged into 1 pound bags. We charge $3.50 - $8.00.

                            I don't MIND the BSA popcorn but our area is crawling with scouts (isn't that nice!). Our little town has 4 boyscout troops alone. There are scouts all over the place selling popcorn during the fall. There is just too much competition to make a good sale.

                            Our council does offer Camp Cards our troop does not sell them.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by cnew2 View Post
                              By far our main fundraiser is selling nuts (peanuts, toffee peanuts, cashews, mixed nuts, chocolate covered peanuts, choc pretzels, yogurt pretzels, trailmix, etc). Bought in bulk and re-packaged into 1 pound bags. We charge $3.50 - $8.00.

                              I
                              What time of year does best for your nut sales?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by boomerscout View Post
                                What time of year does best for your nut sales?
                                We sell in the fall thinking that some is purchased for "deer camp" (Nov 15, first day of deer rifle season is practically a holiday in Michigan). We sell at the holiday craft show at our local school in early December.

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