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  • New silver/gold policy?

    I think we need a new National silver/gold policy. If this means redesigning/renaming some things, then great, redesign/rename away. The problem is that sometimes gold is better than silver and sometimes silver is better than gold. I'm sure we're all familiar with how silver is better in Eagle palms while gold is better in JTE, but here's a new one:

    Commissioners above Council-level wear gold epaulettes but their position patches feature silver wreaths while all Commissioners within the Council wear silver epaulettes and their position patches feature gold wreaths.

  • #2
    I really had to reread your comment. I gotta agree that it would be best to standard it all to create less headaches in memory.
    Gold should be the highest all around. sometimes it would even be better to use another color altogether to tell the diefferent between a Regional Commissioner and a Council Commissioner.

    It took me a long time to understand that Key 3 is not the same meaning in Venturing as it is in Boy Scouts or Council.

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    • #3
      If we had professionals who were scouts writing these rules, this would not be an issue.

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      • #4
        So, DS, are you saying we should paint our Eagles yellow?

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        • #5
          Guys,

          Even though we are NOT a "Para-Military" orginazation, we must remember our roots. The uniform, regalia, ranks,... came from other orginizations. In the US military, gold comes before silver. As far as importance goes, in the BSA only, there is not SUPPOSED to be anyone more important than the volunteer.

          If we think about it a moment, what Program would any District or Council have if it were not for the dedicated volunteers? They are the most important and should be nurtured. Not the proffesionals.

          As far as patches and shoulder loops, the BSA can dictate to it's hearts content. The people I care about are the volunteers.

          My $0.02

          Rick

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          • #6
            I like the fact we have the quirky thing with silver and gold. Makes people stop and think and the reasoning is a good point of conversation. Silver represents service and Scouting honors service to other.

            And besides, we need to quit tinkering with stuff for the sake of tinkering. It's like a dog wizzin' on a bush. The dog really doesn't have to go, he just wants everyone to know he's been there.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ghermanno
              Guys, Even though we are NOT a "Para-Military" orginazation, we must remember our roots. The uniform, regalia, ranks,... came from other orginizations. In the US military, gold comes before silver. As far as importance goes, in the BSA only, there is not SUPPOSED to be anyone more important than the volunteer. If we think about it a moment, what Program would any District or Council have if it were not for the dedicated volunteers? They are the most important and should be nurtured. Not the proffesionals. As far as patches and shoulder loops, the BSA can dictate to it's hearts content. The people I care about are the volunteers. My $0.02Rick
              ghermanno, If you're interested in coming to Virginia, we could sure use someone that thinks this way. Without quality volunteers, we don't have a scouting program, without a scouting program, the pros don't get a paycheck. I'm not sure why some folks wearing silver have a problem grasping this concept.

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              • #8
                Simply do away with the loops/tabs/epaulettes entirely. We've got position patches.

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                • #9
                  You'd have my vote for removing loops/tabs/epaulettes. I've already put velcro on my arm so I can more easily swap a position patch.

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                  • #10
                    Qwazse,
                    Don't even think about changing Eagle!.. *thinking how simple it was to learn things in a Troop while bewildering once I started paying attention to District, Council, and National lingo and positions.

                    Ghermano really hits it on the head that voluneteers is the importance. I think its confusing for those of us that want to move deeper into working with District, Council, and National stuff that leads to all this confusion in trying to peg who is where and what. The majority of the volunteers don't even get into this pegging stuff since there concern is their units.

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                    • #11
                      The Lone Ranger didn't shoot gold bullets nor ride his horse 'Goldie.' Traditionally, silver often depicts devine intervention, magical powers, purity, virtue, honor, etc. Gold many times simply symbolizes wealth.

                      In the Armed Forces, silver "outranks" gold but gold "outranks" silver with medals and decorations.

                      Also, did you know that in the Olympics, the winner of an event was orginally given a silver medal. It wasn't until 1904 ins St. Louis (at Forest Park) that the gold, silver, bronze order as we know it now was used. Even now, the first place gold medal is over 92% silver!

                      Now, silver (grey) shoulder loops designate District/Council service (i.e. Unit Commissioners) and gold (yellow) shoulder loops designate Regional/National service. No one has said what level of service is "better." Originally, the intent of shoulder loops was to allow the same shirt to be worn by Scouters who may have held different positions (ex. a Scoutmaster who served as a Unit Commissioner to a Pack).

                      Actually the way I understand it now, it is permissible to wear the should loop color of your primary position in Scouting regardless. So a Cubmaster acting as a Roundtable Commissioner may stick to his Cub Scout shoulder loops if desired.

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                      • #12
                        I agree with TwoCubDad. Of all the issues that need to be resolved in the BSA, this isn't really one of them.

                        Plus, is there ANY area where the BSA succeeds in maintaining 100 percent consistency? After years of reading these forums, I doubt it. Even when something seems absolutely clear, there always seems to be some stray booklet, magazine article, press release, photo or something that contradicts what has been published or issued elsewhere. So, most of the time silver is "higher" than gold, but not all the time. I think we can live with it.

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                        • #13
                          The idea of silver above gold does go back to the armed forces. Captain(two bars of silver) was much less expensive then that of First Lieutenant (one bar of gold).

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                          • #14
                            I'm all for a change - let's use the Star Trek Model

                            Gold (Command): All Youth Members (after all, the most important people in the organization are the youth)
                            Blue (Sciences): All Volunteers (the ones that actually run this little science project we call Scouting)
                            Red (Support - the guys that get killed on landing parties): All Professionals

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by scoutmaster52 View Post
                              The idea of silver above gold does go back to the armed forces. Captain(two bars of silver) was much less expensive then that of First Lieutenant (one bar of gold).
                              Thinking about this, I have to wonder......
                              Gold has always in my mind been more valuable or "above" silver..... so could it be that the military rank insignia are traditionaly brass and silver, instead of gold and silver?

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