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  • Adult Leader CPR/ First Aid Trained patch?

    Just finished hosting a CPR/AED ? First Aid class for our Adult leaders/ parents tonight.

    It was something I had been thinking about for a while. Never know when something could happen while on a camping triup or at a scouting event or go see it activity. Having somebody trained in CPR/ A.E.D. and First Aid is a good thing - getting the leadership and as many parents as possible trained is just way better.

    Had 12 take the class.
    I had contacted a local instructor who works as a paramedic for our county. The instructor is a certified trainer also.
    In two weeks, we should recieve our cert cards.

    Anyways, I would like those who are trained to be identifiable if and when an emergency arrives.

    Is there an adult patch or insignia available for adult leadership to wear on there uniforms?

    My line of thinking is trhat by having that patch:

    1) Parents will have an extra layer of comfort and security by seeing that patch and knowing there are qualified people around in the event something arrises.

    2) "Authority". And by that, something that says I am "Trained by an offical expert" and not "trained by watching Grey's Anatomy" or "trained because I have a friend who's frist cousin's ex-husband's old Girfriend used to date a Dr.".

    You know what I mean? Thedre is always that gut or gal who just knows everything. They will argue with you...which as a leader you could ignore, but if they get a parent of a hurt scout worried or full of doubt - could seriously complicate matters.

    So, is there a patch available or that can be worn as part of the uniform?

    If not, how about a credential style card/ lanyard to be worn around the neck?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Short answer is: no (or at least I am unaware of any such patch). You might be able to find or custom-make a patch that can be worn on the right pocket as the "temporary activity patch."

    But I'm not sure that doing that is necessary, or a good idea...

    1) Parents will have an extra layer of comfort and security by seeing that patch and knowing there are qualified people around in the event something arrises.

    Statistically, the "something" that arises is very very very unlikely to be cardiac arrest. Much more likely are bee stings, allergic reactions, diabetic complications, heat-related illnesses, etc. So while I'm certainly not saying that being trained in CPR isn't important, I will say that I think parents would (or should) be more concerned about your basic first aid skills, and ability to quickly bring in professionals when necessary. But we don't ask Scouts to wear their first aid MB in a prominent position on their uniform, why would we ask adult leaders to wear a distinctive first aid patch?

    2) "Authority". And by that, something that says I am "Trained by an offical expert" and not "trained by watching Grey's Anatomy" or "trained because I have a friend who's frist cousin's ex-husband's old Girfriend used to date a Dr.".

    A couple things here. First, I guess "trained by an official expert" does not make you an official expert, and I'd be uneasy about distributing patches that would identify you as an "authority" on a topic that you've only gone through a couple hours of training on. Second, such a patch won't actually give you any authority. On a couple occasions I remember arriving to an EMS call on an ambulance, in full paramedic uniform, with a fire truck and a couple police cars full of blinking red and blue lights, and there still was that "one guy" who felt that we would benefit from his extensive medical knowledge gained from watching reruns of Scrubs. Its just something you'll have to deal with, with or without a patch on your uniform...

    All of that being said, I definitely don't want to discourage you from seeking out CPR and first aid training. Studies have shown conclusively that survival rates from out-of-hospital cardiac arrest improve significantly when correct CPR is performed early on. And the BSA rightly encourages and requires various first aid training from the cub scout level to the adult leaders. But I just don't think that having a distinctive patch for adult leaders who've taken a first aid class is necessary or helpful.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have never seen one, although I am sure one exists that you can use on the temporary patch pocket side.

      I would be against simply sewing one onto the uniform, as CPR / 1st aid classes expire fairly frequently (1 to 3 years). Thus, a patch would provide a false sense of security if the wearer is not up-to-date. I beleive the card is enough. The Trained patch we use now if for permanent position training, not temporary health and safety training.

      Comment


      • #4
        Patches do exist:
        http://www.safetystore.com/first_aid_cpr_aed_patch.html

        But like everyone else, I am not so sure they are needed.(This message has been edited by UCEagle72)

        Comment


        • #5
          I believe oncve upon a time BSA did have such a patch, or something similar, but it was limited to Explorers. I think it was either a patch or armband, but don't quote me on that.

          I do believe that ARC makes such a patch that probably could be worn as a temp patch. As others noted though, FA and CPR certs do need constant updating.


          Comment


          • #6
            "I believe oncve upon a time BSA did have such a patch, or something similar, but it was limited to Explorers. I think it was either a patch or armband, but don't quote me on that."

            I think you are thinking of the Emergency Service Explorer (later called Ready Explorer) which ran from the war period to the 60s and maybe 70s.

            In the early decades of the program, Explorers had to complete several areas of training or show proficiancy in certain activities to be qualified as such (this should be covered at my site www.seniorscoutinghistory.org).

            As emergency services became more widespread and professionalized, the need for having scouts/explorers do this went away, limited to Explorers in speciality posts related to this area.

            But they had to be trained in a LOT more then just First Aid/CPR.


            Comment


            • #7
              As others have said the biggest problem I would have with a patch is that the training expires. What are the odds that the patch will then be taken off the uniform?

              Keeping the certification card in the wallet (no need to wear it around your neck) works fine. You can also acknowledge them all at your next Pack meeting.

              Comment


              • #8
                The Card your participants get will be their credentials. With all the temporary patches that are out there, It might be difficult to figure out who's got what cert. and so on.

                Now in a large camp setting, you would want something for those individuals who are certified. At our day camp this year, we will have our medical staff at HQ, but then, any individual who is CPR certified will wear an additional lanyard that has the letters CPR in bright red on it. Everybody has been told at training, that the ones that are certified and current will have this.

                Until National comes up with a viable curriculum and standards for all units, and a way to have a recognized patch,that can be updated when you recert, I just don't see it happening soon.

                The leaders who are certified will be the one who jump into the action when it's needed,whether they have a patch or not. The ones that aren't will stand around waiting for somebody else to do it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  OwnTheNight (and Scoutfish) - I guess I just don't understand what kind of problem you're trying to solve. I don't necessarily think there would be anything wrong with a patch or lanyard for those who've taken a CPR class, but I just don't see what good it would do anybody.

                  Now in a large camp setting, you would want something for those individuals who are certified. At our day camp this year, we will have our medical staff at HQ, but then, any individual who is CPR certified will wear an additional lanyard that has the letters CPR in bright red on it. Everybody has been told at training, that the ones that are certified and current will have this.

                  I've volunteered as medical staff for various Scouting events over the years, and I've never added anything to my uniform specific to my job as a medical officer. What I do do is work with the staff during camp preparation to ensure that everyone is up to date on their basic first aid, and develop plans and procedures for handling medical emergencies so that everything runs smoothly. I also introduce myself to campers as the medical officer, and ensure that they are familiar with what they need to do in the event of an emergency. This is probably what you are already doing as well. Over the years I have worked a handful of true emergencies in this setting, and everything has run fairly smoothly. I don't see how giving staff any special patches or lanyards or face paint or anything would enhance our emergency preparedness. Good training, and having proper emergency procedures in place is really all that you need.

                  Until National comes up with a viable curriculum and standards for all units, and a way to have a recognized patch,that can be updated when you recert, I just don't see it happening soon.

                  I don't see it happening either, mainly because I don't think it is necessary. National already does require various degrees of first aid training for various events. The important thing is for the appropriate people to have the appropriate training, and be physically and mentally prepared to handle situations using that training. Devoting prominent uniform "bling" for a skill set that we teach everyone from cub scouts to seasoned leaders is not important.

                  The leaders who are certified will be the one who jump into the action when it's needed,whether they have a patch or not. The ones that aren't will stand around waiting for somebody else to do it.

                  That's quite the generalization ;-) I've seen people without any official certifications but an abundance of common sense "jump into the action" and do an excellent job managing a situation until professionals arrived. I've seen people with every certification under the sun freeze up or completely botch a situation despite having an assortment of certification cards and patches.

                  Bottom line for me is that getting good CPR and first aid training is of paramount importance. Recognized certifications (such as those through the AHA or other organizations) are a good first step at verifying some baseline competency of first aid/CPR skills. Embellishing a scout uniform when someone completes a CPR class doesn't seem to serve any real purpose. We don't devote any special uniform items to Scouts with the first aid MB - they get a small badge not that much different from any other MB. Why would adults need something prominent and distinctive to indicate knowledge of a skill set essentially identical to that of the first aid MB?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    KC9DDI, I used to be a certified Emergency Medical Technition in the state of NC, I was also a certified Level III firefighter ( it ws as high as you could go inn NC at the time - now they combined parts of I with II, and the rest of II with half of III and no longer have a stand alone III course.

                    I was also a certfied Water rescue level III which was contracted by Fla Public Safety out of Fla. They set the standards of training in Fla.


                    BVy authority, I do not mean experts, but sometrhing trhat says: "Hey, I took a real class taught by a real instructor who happens to be a professional certified by the Dept of Health and human resources and under the Office of Emergency Medical Services - not by just watching tv for a bunch of years or assuming you might know."

                    And I'll be honest: In every crowd, trhere is a "Norm" whio is the unofficial expert on everything. He is the guy who would say the paramedics should inject the patient with 5 mm of cc!

                    If that idiot presents a halfway authentic sounding arguement, mom or dad could and would liely try to stop the trained person from doing something "wrong".

                    That's why I like the idea of a card or some sort of designation to say: "het, I really do know what to do until the paramedics get there".

                    And that is the only "authority" I am talking about. Not real, true paramedic authority.

                    Just something to say that we are not just guessing what to do.

                    Also, it wasn't just a CPR class, but basic full emergency first aid.

                    Now me? I haven't been with Fire or EMS in around 16 years ( marrage does that to yah)but I still remember almost all of it.


                    Our counciul camp is about 12 miles from the closest town with EMS service. Sure, there is a camp safety officer when full camp is going on, but packs can rent camping time alone or camp for fre during service weekends. There are 2 big lake and who knows how many ditches at THAT camp.

                    Then we have a local camp which also has a lake ( well...more like a pond with an attitude!) nplus numerous creeks and ditches. It's about 7 miles from the closest EMS station.

                    Our pack is also on the coast. We do activities at a soundside park/pier/boat landing. It's on the intracoastal waterway. Lots of water.

                    So yeah, I will bet our most common emergencies will be from scouts swinging sticks, falling out of trees, or playing with pockets knives when they are not supposed to be. After that, I'll go with stings, bites and snakebites.


                    But not as likely does not mean never.

                    And when that odd occasion comes along, I do not want a childs welfare to be obstructed by the same people who just absolutely know for a fact that a cop cannot write a ticket without his hat on or it's void.

                    THose are the people who will say that the CPR or whatever first aid is being done wrong.

                    And a panacky parent is already scared, full of doubts and will do anything to do what they think is best ...wether it is wright or wrong....to help their child.

                    "Now in a large camp setting, you would want something for those individuals who are certified. At our day camp this year, we will have our medical staff at HQ, but then, any individual who is CPR certified will wear an additional lanyard that has the letters CPR in bright red on it. Everybody has been told at training, that the ones that are certified and current will have this."

                    Hey! This is a GREAT IDEA!


                    Okay, I do see the downside of a patch if there was one to be worn. It's hard enough to get a leader to take of his "trained" patch when he changes duties or positions. I wouldn't want a patch that did not apply.

                    Thanks!
                    (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Scoutfish - I understand what you're saying, but I still just don't understand why there should be a distinctive BSA uniform element to recognise basic first aid training. Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree.

                      BVy authority, I do not mean experts, but sometrhing trhat says: "Hey, I took a real class taught by a real instructor who happens to be a professional certified by the Dept of Health and human resources and under the Office of Emergency Medical Services - not by just watching tv for a bunch of years or assuming you might know.

                      And that is the only "authority" I am talking about. Not real, true paramedic authority.

                      Well, that's not really what "authority" is - its just evidence that you've completed a training course, and an implication that you may be more qualified than someone else to render aid in certain situations. And I'm not sure that there is such a thing as "true paramedic authority" - paramedics may at times have a legal obligation to render aid, but typically don't have any "authority" - that's what cops are for ;-)

                      But that's actually part of the reason I'm skeptical about this idea - I've come across more than a handful of medics and "first aid trainees" who think that their training or job title gives them some kind of authority, when it really does not. Things like special patches and certification cards encourage this type of behavior. I'm not saying that this would be your motivation for this idea, but it definitely opens the door to the type of people who do think along these lines...

                      That's why I like the idea of a card or some sort of designation to say: "het, I really do know what to do until the paramedics get there".

                      Wouldn't the certification card you got through your training be adequate for this? With the added benefit that you could carry it with you at non-Scouting events and whip it out as needed? And that it has the expiration date and name of the training organization already on it. If this is your only goal, it looks like its already been solved, without needing to adjust the Scout uniform.

                      I guess bottom line for me is that I just don't agree that having a patch on your uniform will really do any good. I'm certainly not saying that the training is not valuable, but I don't think that a patch will solve the hypothetical problems you bring up. Additionally, I'm not a huge fan of using the uniform to recognise every last little accomplishment or training course, especially for adult leaders. If the CPR certified get a special patch, then why can't the certified life guards get a special shoulder cord? Or special epaulettes for certified rock climbers? Special neckerchief for those with search and rescue training? Where do you draw the line? (I would say the "trained" strip is enough)

                      To me it seems like it would be an awful large investment of time and effort to oversee a patch/insignia program in a meaningful way, for very little hypothetical value.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thinking about it,there IS an badge that can be worn by those who know First Aid and CPR: First Aid Merit Badge. Grant you only youth can wear it, and yes I do wish FA MB was required for First Class like it was back in the day. In two instances where first aid was needed and folks knew I was a scout, they expected me to know what to do as it was a expected that a Scout should know first aid. Luckily the first time that happened, it was for something I learned earning Readyman since I was a brand new Tenderfoot. Second time was a little more serious, and the FA MB really helped.

                        Further having a Bunch of First Class and higher scouts do first aid on me really proved to me the value of having First Aid MB required for First Class, that was the case of my rescue, and I strongly encourage every scout to make it the first MB he earns.

                        Forgot to add, why do adults need recognition for something that is expected of scouts?(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You know, Scoutfish, I understand your point. We recently had a boy injured during a meeting and none of us knew if any of the other leaders had first aid training or to what extent. There was definitely a bit of a scuffle as to who should take charge. But on the other hand, I agree that a patch isn't necessarily the answer. I think an announcement that the leadership plus several parents had completed first aid training would establish that credibility, with the certification card in a wallet as back-up. Plus, most importantly, your leaders know who took the class and whom to turn to in an emergency. Seeing who the leaders defer to will give confidence to the parents, more so than a patch IMO.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Scoutfish - I understand what you're saying, but I still just don't understand why there should be a distinctive BSA uniform element to recognise basic first aid training. Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree

                            No..apparently not. It is not a fel good , "hey look at me" toot my horn thing. My idea was only...and I repeat only so that in the event something happened, and the trained person started to act on it, the people around trhem would see the designation and know that a person with some training is trying to help their child ( or spouse as the case may be) , and not just somebody who has no clue who is just reacting.

                            And authority does not have 1 single meaning. As adult leaders, we have somewhat - although limited - authroity on the scouting program. Camp directord have authority over what may or may not go on during camp.

                            By authority, I mean somebody with a higher level of knowledge of what needs to be done. Yes, it is that simple.

                            For example : " Bob is the local authority on dinosuars and fossils." Nope, no actual authority or ability to tell people what to do..but is somebody with a higher degree of knowledge on the subject at hand...which in this case is CPR or the latest training in AND First aid.

                            "True paramedic Authority would be Paramedic level of knowledge and training. Incidentally, they do have authority in emergency situations. Of course, it varies from state to state , but in the state of NC, during an emergency situation firefighters are given the ame recognition and commnded the same respect as law enforcement. During sitautions such as wrecks, they (n as well as paramedics) can outrank law enforcement. Back when I was Asst Chief, I actually used that power twice to override a local law enforcement officers command as his directions would have not only hampered the triage of the scene, but could in fact put more people in danger. Did he like it? Uh -Uh...not at all. Is it something you carelessly throw around? Nope! But it is there.

                            Again, varies state to state.

                            But anyways, that isn't the point. I am using authority in the sense of knowledge. And I mean it in the respect of a trained person versus somebody who has no training at all.


                            "Forgot to add, why do adults need recognition for something that is expected of scouts?"

                            Okay, I wasn't clear. That's cool - my apologies.

                            It isn't a form of recognition to say " Hey look what I did!"

                            But as recognition for parents to see that somebody is trained in the event help is needed.
                            Same reason police officers have badges or paramedics have patches. Sure, driving up in a vehicle with lights and sirens is a pretty good indicator, but they don't stop there.

                            Imagine this situation: You are at a ball game or a zoo, racetrack..whatever. Big place. lots of people. Your spouse, has a heart attack or your kid cuts his hand open on a chainlink fense or whatever. You know how it is, 300 people gather around and 40 of them start giving all kinds of wonderful suggestions. Of course, all the suggestions are different and they might even bicker amongst themselves over what to do.

                            Assuming you were a non trained person, and didn't know what to do...who would you let try to treat your kid? Which person would you feel safe doing something?

                            Then one of the zoo people, track workers, employees, etc... come up and youy see a first aid patch on their shirt. They say they know what to do and can help.

                            Granted, the adrenalin is still flowing, but seeing that patch calms you down some...or at least gives you comfort in the fact you know they have knowledge of what to do and nbot just an idea like the majority of the bystanders.

                            But, as mentioned earlier, I like the idea of the lanyard with the bold letterd card around trhe neck.

                            Now you guys know how it is: At your average pack, not every parent shows up for every meeting. When we go pack camping, the mom who usually takes her kid to meetings might stay at home and make a ladies weekend with other moms and dad, who is never at meetings , comes camping.

                            Maybe it's just that one parent who always brings their kids to meetings, but both go camping along with grandpa and grandma.The parent who always goes to meetings is helping with an activity across the camp, but the other parent is just chilling out and enjoying the camping.

                            I am thye Cub Master, have been at my pack for 3 years now, and I do not know every parent. Not one adult leader knows every parent. I see dad's intoducing wives to den leaders...even though that WEbelos scout has been with us for 5 years.

                            So depending on who comes, you just added 3 people who are not familiar with any of the leadership or who might be in charge of, trained in, or capable of doing ..whatever. Maybe an older brother or sister is there too.

                            But supposing grandma falls over in cardiac arrest, and grandpa and dad who never goes to meetings see 3 or 4 adults standing 25 feet away hanging out, and to the other side are a few more adults hanging out - but one has the red lanyard around his neck with a bright white card with big red letters on it. They might not even be able to read the leters, but know from a prior announcement what it means.

                            Well, grandpa and dad can go straight to or yell for that person instead of just running around asking who might be able to do....anything or....something!

                            Again, I am stresing it is not a "Ooooh, look what I did" trhing. It is a "This is the person to ask for help" thing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Among our troop adult leadership, at least 6 have completed Wilderness First Aid. At least two adults were former EMTs. The adult leadership knows who has training. The scouts know to use the chain of command. Ultimatley the SM will direct the injured to the most qualified responder.

                              A patch does not make a particular person the best responder. I wear no patches related to my first aid or rescue training on my scout uniform. I don't carry any wallet cards. I was a firefighter, EMT, Technical rescue technican for about 12 years. I could easily fill a vest with all the patches I have for first aid and rescue related training. I have a 3 ring binder full of diplomas related to first aid and rescue training. No victim has ever asked to see my Id. Parents should be looking to troop leadership to handle emergencies.

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