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  • #46
    Adult patches?!
    Hey... what you people wear in the privacy of your own homes or in a private setting in the company of other consenting adults is your own business.
    But on a scout uniform? In public? In front of kids?
    Let's keep all patches G-Rated please.

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    • #47
      Cito & Tokala - do the SPL and ASPL in your troop wear patrol patches?

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      • #48
        I'm currently doing the Cubmaster thing with my 7 year old, so no current troop. The last troop I was part of, the SPL was not a member of a patrol. No ASPL.

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        • #49
          acco40:
          When I was SM the youth leaders had their PoR patch on their uniform. They may have worn their patrol medallion, but served their leadership position first.

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          • #50
            ChaiAdventure wrote:
            not to start a new argument...but is it really the role of the COR to act as the uniform police for the unit?? having looked at the BSA guidelines for a COR, I could find nothing remotely close to that duty....

            I had the same thought reading the thread. A couple of thoughts come to mind.
            First - that's fantastic that someones got a COR that's involved enough to care
            Second - that seems more like a discussion between a COR & a SM to me. Seems like the SM should decide what he/she wants and then chat w/ the COR next time they're having an adult beverage together.

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            • #51
              One of the roles of the troop committee, and the committee chair specifically is to advise the Scoutmaster of Scouting policies. The uniform, insignia, and the patrol method would all seem to be part of that bailiwick. The SM can't be expected to know everything and the committee is there to help. Read all about it in the Troop Committee Guidebook.

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              • #52
                Hey FScouter,

                Not sure if your post was in response to mine, but if so - I think we're on the same page.

                In my unit, all the adults are friends, so having one adult say to another "Hey Bob - did you know that technically you shouldn't be wearing a patrol patch?" is certainly a fine thing to do. But, in a more formal sense, I think the COR (and as you say, other adult members) shouldn't take it upon themselves to be directly policing the actions of the adult leaders. Yet, it is entirely appropriate for the COR to mention to the SM, "I notice your leaders are not wearing the uniform correctly", or perhaps "our chartered organization believes wearing the uniform correctly is pretty important, can you mind working with the leaders to take the non-official patches off?"

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                • #53
                  The rules exist for a purpose. But we have to do better than just follow rules. As leaders, we have to also consider the possibility that there may be times when the rule is less important than the results we get.

                  If a bunch of leaders start wearing patrol patches, and they come up with some sort of induction ceremony for new leaders, and a cheer for themselves as a group, and that sort of thing, I think telling them they aren't supposed to wear the patch would be a stupid thing to do.

                  Here's a group of people who have managed to turn being a volunteer leader into not only motivated fun for the boys but fun for themselves while setting a good example. And then someone wants to cite some guide book for uniforms and pretend there is some negative consequence from them wearing the patrol badge?

                  Exactly what negative thing happens because someone has a patrol patch on their sleeve? Nothing.

                  Is there any possible good? Yes.

                  For me, that's all I need to know.

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                  • #54
                    BSA24, you hit the nail with the hammer. A happy, well motivated leadership will do better than one that is not.

                    A small patch is not a reason to kill a good thing. And as long as it's a good example of how a group of boys (ok, you know I mean adults, but heck, Scouting keeps me mentally young) can come together and have a good time, leave the nit picking to the school nurse.

                    Besides, as I said earlier, you don't have to wear the patch on a sleeve, put it on a leather thong and wear it from the right pocket button in place of a temporary patch. There, uniform regulation issue solved.

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                    • #55
                      In response to the SPL and ASPL wearing patrol medallions, growing up the ASPL was the PL of the Leadership Corps, and wore the LC patch on his uniform. SPL didn't wear one, but did participate in some activities that the LC did on their own.

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                      • #56
                        Adults don't normally wear patrol patches because they simply aren't members of patrols. Only scouls wear them

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                        • #57
                          >


                          I've never been part of a troop that had a formal adult patrol. We were probably weaker because of that.

                          Without a formal patrol structure, adults tended to cook for themselves, or in small groups. The opportunity to model patrol spirit to Boy Scouts was missing.

                          It also should help keep adults out of patrol areas.


                          So I see adult patrols as a good thing. Probably ought to be a formal part of the program.

                          If I entered into a troop that had an adult patrol as a tradition, I'd respect the tradition and cooperate with the adult patrol.

                          If I were a SM, I might welcome adult leaders who might form an adult patrol.

                          As for COR reps, they really aren't Xperts on the needs of the program. They might raise the issue with the SM, but really shouldn't be trying to direct the program in that way in my opinion.

                          In short, I'm with those who regard the Uniform Guide as a guide, not compelling rules.

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                          • #58
                            When I was a Scoutmaster, yeah I realized we were not formally a patrol but I had us (adults) camp away from the youth, eat meals on our own, etc. So we sort of functioned like a patrol and I found that if I told some of the lesser informed adults they we apart of our patrol, their helicopter ways would ease. I even had the adults "earn" a patrol patch. I had a shirt I wore to troop only outings that had a patrol patch. I had many other shirts that had no patrol patch that I wore to jambos, roundtables, camporees, COH, etc.

                            We used that opportunity to model ideal patrol behavior. Our meals were the envy of some of the boys - it fostered ideas and led them to expand their culinary choices. Also, we invited the SPL and ASPL to eat with us most of the time. It got them away from the patrols and the possibility of overshadowing a patrol leader. It also gave me some one-on-one time (no, not real G2SS violation one-on-one) with the SPL to review the outing, plans, etc. in a relaxed atmosphere.

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                            • #59
                              There is an element that I've not seen discussed. We are thinking of issuing "Old Goat" or similar patrol patches to the adults who help with campouts, as a humorous (and somewhat unofficial) way of recognizing and thanking them at our Courts-of-Honor. I say somewhat, since the patrol patch is a part of the scouts' uniform. In our troop, the adults function as a separate food group at campouts (just as the youth patrols do), and we adults keep our distance. We are not "playing" at being a patrol. By awarding these patches, we think it might be a friendly and welcoming way of including them into the "club" of adult helpers, showing to all that it can be fun and friendly at campouts as adults. We hope this might help to retain existing helpers, and also to recruit new parents into helping, since many are in attendance only at COH's. Since the health of a troop depends so much on adult participation, and it is always a struggle to get adult involvement, we thought this might work as a slight incentive to gain adult help. Have any others had success with this approach? Thanks!

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                              • #60
                                Some folks might bristle at this, but the Chartered Organization Rep has a number of responsibilities, but setting unit policy is not one of them. The role of the COR is spelled out here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/04-113.pdf . You will not find any reference to his or her setting of unit policy, or anything like that, in the document. Of course, if he or she does not like what you are doing, they can fire you, but that is another issue and would be retaliation for not following a directive that is not their place to make in the first place.

                                Uniform police aside, posters here have given a number of reasons why they use patrol patches. Wood badge, adult leader team solidarity, etc. If you want to use them, go ahead. If the COR doesn't like it, politely thank him for his opinion and refer him to the Scoutmaster, who DOES set program policy and DOES have the right to set uniform policy in the unit. Who does it harm? No one. It is often fun (we proudly wore our Old Goat patrol patches: I loved the ghost writing that read, "Ask your Patrol Leader"), designates a Wood Badge Patrol, etc.

                                So, have a little fun, don't worry about the folks who worry about what is on your uniform (let them worry about their own uniforms instead), and lead on!

                                Good luck!

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