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  • #31
    The Whittling Chip is for Cub Scouts and not for Boy Scouts so OA should not enter into the picture. Parents are involved in the decision on whether or not a Bear can earn his Whittling Chip and carry a knife. As a leader, I have asked many boys (some using a knife safely, some not), if they have their Whittling Chip card on them. I did not remember ever getting a yes answer to that question.

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    • #32
      The Insignia Guide doesn't show on the adult uniform NAME TAGS either, does it?

      SO, since it doesn't show name tags, then we must remove them.

      Same reasoning.

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      • #33
        "The Insignia Guide doesn't show on the adult uniform NAME TAGS either, does it?

        "SO, since it doesn't show name tags, then we must remove them."

        What are you yammering about???

        The Insignia Guide DOES show adult uniform name tags and were they are worn.

        If you aren't in the OA, it goes on the right pocket flap. If you are in the OA, above the pocket flap.

        http://www.scouting.org/media/insigniaguide/10.aspx

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        • #34
          PeteM

          Could you please expand on your post? I am not sure that I understood what you were trying to say.

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          • #35
            I think that Pete didn't realize that name tags ARE covere by the insignia guide. His argument was that if they aren't in the insignia guide, they shouldn't be worn.

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            • #36
              While I agree that a Patrol Patch should not be worn on the right sleeve of an adult uniform, there is nothing that says it can't be, say, worn on the right pocket. I would of course, attach it to a leather backing, appropriately shaped so that it could be hung from the right pocket button.

              Our troop formed the Gray Eagle Patrol. Made up of active adult leaders, we have a neckerchief and "patrol flag". The Gray of course, is taken from the color of our hair, the Eagle is the goal we hope to inspire all our scouts to reach. our troop neckerchiefs are green with a narrow gold border. When the scouts reach 1st Class, they are presented with neckerchief that has a broad gold border. Our adult patrol does a similar thing but in gray, new leaders wear the thin boarder and when they complete the Position required training get issued the broad border. Of course, it goes without saying you'll need a uniform to wear it with.

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              • #37
                I don't and won't wear a patrol patch as an adult. Patrols are for the Scouts, not the adults. Do adults really need a small round patch to remind them that they are part of a group? I see it more as demonstrating making the correct choice and following guidelines rather than "it's an insignificant thing so it really doesn't matter attitude".

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                • #38
                  Goodness what a tempest in a teapot! Our adults can wear a "Coffee" or "Old Goat" Patrol patch and we wear them proudly wear Patrol patches go. Why hang it on a pocket and confuse the newbies.

                  The main adult Patrol is the Coffee Patrol and you earn it by doing 5 campouts in a year and a weeklong camp. We have the nicest Patrol box and divide up the chores, etc. This is also good modeling for new parents as well as adults. And we have a snazzy flag. A few boys got inspired by our flag and made their own. We try to rig our dining fly with the appropriate knots and frequently boys drop by to ask how we did something or better yet show us one better.

                  The Old Goats is a much more select group. I believe you need to accompany the boys on a weeklong AT hike.

                  So at the very least the presence of the patch shows folks who were willing to use a week of vacation time to do with the boys.

                  Official or not I find the Patrol patches a fun Troop tradition and good motivator for some. A least as valid as some of those silly knots. ;P

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                  • #39
                    Tokala, while adults may not "need" a patrol, many troops have established unofficial "patrols" among their adult leaders. Scouting is for the boys, but sometimes one has to realize that many of the adults who make the program work are imaginatve, fun loving individuals. The "Gray Eagle Patrol" (Gray from the color of our hair) in our troop allows us to channel this enthusiasm.

                    Sure, we're not a "real official patrol", (which is why we wear our "Patrol emblem on the right pocket rather than the sleeve) but we provide a great example in camp of how the patrol method should work, as well as a top notch program for our scouts, all the while having a good time doing it. It enhances our troops ablity to recruit, keep and motivate adult leaders by giving them additional activities and a stronger sense of belonging, as well as provides a scouts perspective to the new parent\leader who may have not had the opportuntity to be a scout in their youth. They get to experance what their son is.

                    Woodbadge forms it's students into patrols. Is that wrong if patrols are only for boys? I feel if an "Adult Patrol" does not distract from the mission, then more power to it.

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                    • #40
                      At the dire risk of being a target, I confess the Coffee Patrol members has occasionally even PARTICIPATED in games pitting the patrols against each other. In each case we picked games that our age and size put us at a disadvantage and true be told we were pretty darned humiliating but we wanted the boys to know that we were not "above" a silly game. Really did as an ice breaker.

                      Our last SM was really a good one for getting down and playing with the boys--i.e. showing them the best way to make a belly flop or squirt with your hands.

                      Scouting is a paradox that helps guide boys into men while helping men keep their inner boy.

                      I'd be willing to bet that 'Ol B.P. would be willing to play a silly game once in a while.

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                      • #41
                        Tampa Turtle,

                        While our "Adult Patrol" does not compete with our boys, I bet B.P. had a great time getting into it with his boys.

                        If it works in your troop, then keep at it!

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                        • #42
                          I have no problem with adult patrol patches. I'd much rather see those than a fruit salad of knots on the adults.

                          In my first troop, the adults were the Buffalo patrol on campouts. It was either due to the profile of many of the adults, or perhaps a Wood Badge thing. Either way, we camped separate, cooked separate, and essentially functioned as a model patrol.

                          For fun, the SM had some patches done in pink for some of the female ASM and committee members who were more hard-core outing leaders. They loved it, and we got more than a few requests from other troops to buy/trade those pink buffalo, so they were either collectors or must have done likewise...

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                          • #43
                            not to start a new argument...but is it really the role of the COR to act as the uniform police for the unit?? having looked at the BSA guidelines for a COR, I could find nothing remotely close to that duty....

                            as far as patches...I wear my Bear patrol patch from WB...I wear it proudly both as a tribute to the fine individuals I had the honor of meeting during that course, and as a conversation starter for other scouters...."hey...you are a bear?? don't they just eat and hibernate??"

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                            • #44
                              cchoat wrote:
                              "Tokala, while adults may not "need" a patrol, many troops have established unofficial "patrols" among their adult leaders. Scouting is for the boys, but sometimes one has to realize that many of the adults who make the program work are imaginatve, fun loving individuals. The "Gray Eagle Patrol" (Gray from the color of our hair) in our troop allows us to channel this enthusiasm.

                              Sure, we're not a "real official patrol", (which is why we wear our "Patrol emblem on the right pocket rather than the sleeve) but we provide a great example in camp of how the patrol method should work, as well as a top notch program for our scouts, all the while having a good time doing it. It enhances our troops ablity to recruit, keep and motivate adult leaders by giving them additional activities and a stronger sense of belonging, as well as provides a scouts perspective to the new parent\leader who may have not had the opportuntity to be a scout in their youth. They get to experance what their son is.

                              Woodbadge forms it's students into patrols. Is that wrong if patrols are only for boys? I feel if an "Adult Patrol" does not distract from the mission, then more power to it."

                              cc:
                              I've managed to do all that you list to demonstrate the patrol method and set a good example. I guess I just don't need a patch to validate it. Wood Badge forms patrols to teach the patrol method and allow the adults to experience leadership and being a part of a PLC. It's not designed to teach adults to go back to their unit and form an adult patrol. My Council no longer issues patrol patches to Wood badge patricipants so that we don't get adults wearing patrol patches in their units. After all, what about the poor Cub leaders? Do Cub leaders sew on Den numerals?

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                              • #45
                                Funny, just hand my orientation for wood badge today and it was specifically called out that adults do not wear patrol patches. It was mentioned with quite a few other reminders about the uniform.

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