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  • #16
    As I read this post, I pulled out my Insignia Guide to check it out. And as always I respect other opinions but the only thing I find in the Insignia Guide is: Badges of Rank Are for Youth Members. In Scouting, the advancement program is intended for youth members only.
    As I have stated before our Troops adults do wear Patrol Emblems and it works in our Troop. If it works in your Troop use it, if it doesnt don't. What matters is if the boys are "playing the great game of Scouting".

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    • #17
      The Insignia Guide details uniform insignia and how it should be worn. It isn't a list of no-no's. Other than the G2SS, there is very little in BSA publications that list what is NOT part of the BSA program. Publications and training are about what "is".

      Any question about adult patrols ought to be answered by reading the "adult patrol" chapters in the Scoutmaster Handbook, Advancement book, Troop Committee guide, etc. etc. If there was any such animal in Scouting, those publications would detail how adult patrols are formed, how they are operated, and what their purpose might be. Of course, there is not even one sentence devoted to the idea.

      My personal opinion is that if there was any value to the idea of adult patrols, BSA would at the very least make mention of it.

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      • #18
        "As I read this post, I pulled out my Insignia Guide to check it out. And as always I respect other opinions but the only thing I find in the Insignia Guide is: Badges of Rank Are for Youth Members."

        To re-iterate what FScouter said: don't look to the Insignia Guide for a list of 'do nots'. Don't expect it to say all the people who CAN'T wear an award or WHEN an award/item CAN'T be worn or WHERE an award/item CAN'T be worn.

        The Insignia Guide says WHO CAN wear an award, WHERE an item CAN be worn, and When. Sooo, if you don't fall into that category...

        If you look, you will see that scouts wear patrol medallions. Since it doesn't say that scout leader wear patrol medallions, guess what? That's means they don't and shouldn't wear them.

        In fact, I think there are only 2-3 instances in the Insignia Guide of it saying something can't be worn.

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        • #19
          Many people wear patches on red jack-shirts that aren't allowed by the rules (all that's supposed to be allowed is the BSA patch on front and the OA patch on back). Also, the rules say not to wear a district patch, but our district has one and the council sells them and encourages us to wear them. I didn't know about some of the rules for years. Although there have been long discussions on following rules in general, and I don't want to rehash that here, if you look around at a Roundtable, you'll find most people have some sort of uniforming rule violation. The truth is, the kids do not care, nor will most of them know, if we are wearing patches wrong. So, I don't think this patrol patch thing is a big deal.

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          • #20
            Scouter760, guess what? Greater St. Louis Area Council just put a note in the council newsletter that they will no longer be selling district patches. I always thought it was a goofy rule about district patches since National Supply made them to sell to the council - huh? Districts seem pretty important to the way the BSA operates, they sell district flags but they don't like district patches; never could figure out the rationale. I don't know why the SE would make a deal about district patches; he certainly has more important things to worry about.

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            • #21
              the CR is correct. Patrol emblems are not for wear on the adult uniform shirt.

              National does not make District patches for wear on the BSA uniform. They may make the patches, but there are a lot of patches made and sold by the BSA that are not for display on the official uniform shirt.

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              • #22
                I agree with Eamonn and Acco here. Inappropriate though it may be, wearing an Old Goat Patrol patch is not a big deal. My troop gives them out and most of the adults do wear them. I have never chosen to do so, perhaps on the logic that people can tell from looking at me, and/or the position patch on my uniform shirt, that I am an adult rather than a Scout. They don't need to see a picture of an Old Goat on my shoulder rather than a Cobra, Hawk or Whatever to tell what "group" I belong to within the troop.

                Having said that, I don't object to anyone else wearing the Old Goat patch. It is not a formal thing, it is just a way for the adults to poke fun at themselves and maybe build a little camaraderie among the adults and with the kids. Maybe not. Who cares? I have been to many district events and have never seen anyone question another adult for wearing such a patch. If the CR of my troop were to ask or direct that such patches not be worn (unlikely since, among other things, I'm pretty sure the CR's spouse wears an Old Goat patch), and my fellow adult leaders were ready to man the barricades and pour down the boiling oil over this, my advice to them would be: "Please, just take off the patch."

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                • #23
                  It doesn't have to be a big deal to be wrong. It would not take a big deal to do it right.

                  So as a responsible leader, if you could choose to easily be wrong, or easily be right which would you choose?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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                  • #24
                    Bob, was that addressed to me?

                    If so, as I said, I don't choose to wear a patrol patch. I just don't see a need to bother those who do. I have said something about such things as a 50-something man wearing a youth Eagle patch. Some things are more important than others.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

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                    • #25
                      No, it was a comment about the reasons some use to do things wrong based on how they measure the "size" of the incorrectness.

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                      • #26
                        The GREAT BOB has spoken everyone, so rip off those patrol emblems you adult scouters cuz ur breakin the scout uniform law. Man I think a few people are getting bent out of shape for no reason here. Yes technically no patrol emblems, but who is going to play uniform police, aside from BW. Really people concentrate on quality program and stop sweating the small stuff.

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                        • #27
                          I have never suggested that Scouters should rip the patches off their uniforms, you are certainly melodramatic if nothing else. The origin of the thread was that the CR told the leaders of the unit that CR is in charge of, that the patrol emblem did not belong on the uniforn=m, and had others heard of this. The only correct answer is that the Charter rep was correct. This is not an emblem that belongs on an adults unifrom accordfing to the uniform policies of the BSA. Not mine...the BSA's.

                          Now if you feel the need to twist that into something it isn't, then that is a personal problem you will need to deal with on your own.

                          I noticed another poster also suppoerted the correct uniforming info as I did and yet you siongled me out for your attacks. As a person who was an employee of the BSA's for a few years I would have expected a better understanding of the uniform regulations.

                          There are no uniform police in the BSA. The program has always relied on the personal integrity of the volunteers and the people who select them to do the right thing. It is reasonable to expect that with 1.2 million volunteers there will be a percentage that will choose not to.

                          I am pleased to know by gigibw's post that there are indeed Charter Organization Representatives who take their obligation to follow the BSA program to heart, and expect the leaders of their units to do the same.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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                          • #28
                            I'm with BW. I keep my uniform as spartan as possible. The UG says "Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered."

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                            • #29
                              It is strange that the Scout Service Center sells a Whittling Chip patch, but that patch cannot be put on the uniform. National has this patch under the heading of "HOME >> UNIFORMS & INSIGNIA >> STANDARD EMBLEMS". During the purchasing process, the fact that this patch was not to be worn on the uniform was never mentioned.

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                              • #30
                                "2 1/4" x 3 1/2". Not for uniform wear."

                                I find it equally strange that they sell a pocket flgp shaped patch that cannot be worn on the pocket flap.

                                Some councils started using this patch and finally national made it a stock item but they have to say that it isn't to be worn because the right flap belongs to OA.

                                Personally, I think that the idea of a patch to show that you've earned your totin' chip or whittling chip is somewhat silly. The presumption should be that if you're a Scout you have it. Your PL and SM would know if you've earned it or lost it.

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