At my first youth leadership training, I used the "official" ILST tools. It was fine, but even with the games mixed in, it still felt a bit stiff. So, we've just elected a new slate of youth leaders, and the thought of having them slog through the ILST powerpoint again is painful. I was hoping that there may be some other tools that people have had success with that will get them moving. I found some old training videos from the 80's on youtube that seemed a little more interesting (they boys are always up for watching something), but I don't have the complete set. Anyone have any ideas?
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- Mar 2009
I need some usable skits/role-plays/games that communicate simple leadership concepts that boys can learn and apply.
Here's a link to JLT that I'm trying to distill:
Khaliela commented07-05-2013, 01:44 PMEditing a commentSome of Monty Python's Flying Circus stuff might work--it would even keep the boys entertained.
JoeBob commented07-05-2013, 09:19 PMEditing a commentKhalelia: Seriously?
"Don't step on that dwarf! Hand me the pliers..."
SSScout commented07-06-2013, 09:09 AMEditing a commentJB: You reveal your age..... Firesign Theater, "Thank yew, Ahhhh Clem......."
I have used Joebobs link......Module three was a bust.......Not sure if my guys were too young to understand the lesson or my delivery was off or wrong.......But it fell flat.......Modules one and two went over fine and the boys understood it.....
They were completely lost in the potato game....The cookie game was a bust as well......They never considered taking more than their share and when I congratulated them for "winning" the game they looked at me like I had two heads....... I have been thinking about it and not sure how to make it more relevant for my boys.
Originally posted by Basementdweller View PostI have used Joebobs link......Module three was a bust.......Not sure if my guys were too young to understand the lesson or my delivery was off or wrong.......But it fell flat.......Modules one and two went over fine and the boys understood it.....
Originally posted by Basementdweller View PostThey were completely lost in the potato game....The cookie game was a bust as well......They never considered taking more than their share and when I congratulated them for "winning" the game they looked at me like I had two heads....... I have been thinking about it and not sure how to make it more relevant for my boys.
Anyway, here are links to the 80s videos for anyone interested -- I like the format (seems easier for the boys to understand), but I can't find #4. The #4 I have there is from another (also incomplete) set:
- Feb 2013
- Mar 2005
Here is Green Bar Bill's "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol:"
This is the nuts & bolts Patrol Leader Training course we take away from Boy Scouts so they have time to learn deep and meaningful "leadership" concepts from milk and cookie games.
By the third session, Patrol Leaders use Patrol Meetings to plan and then execute Patrol Hikes without adult leadership:
And, of course, the course ends with a Patrol Overnight:
If you have natural outdoor leaders, they may enjoy Green Bar Hill's "Real" Patrol Method more than watching "leadership" on TV.
Last edited by Kudu; 07-11-2013, 09:54 AM.
07-12-2013, 01:33 PMEditing a commentI like this idea, but we're talking about 6 one-hour meetings, a day hike, and an overnight campout. It's hard enough to get them to come to a day-long training on a Saturday, much less schedule 8 things that they need to attend in addition to regular scout stuff. I'll have to see if maybe there's a way to condense then material without diluting it too much.
07-14-2013, 12:35 PMEditing a commentWe always scheduled the six meetings as part of the already scheduled monthly PLC meetings, so they were not additional events.
As for the total length of each meeting, remember that "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" is designed to teach your Troop's most mature leaders how to hold Patrol Meetings, Patrol Hikes, and Patrol Overnights apart from the Troop and without adult supervision. If you scale that level of responsibility (equivalent to a BSA Lifeguard) down to the usual Wood Badge level where everything is planned as a Troop event through the PLC, then the trained Patrol Leaders can hold their Patrol Meetings at weekly Troop Meetings, and the actual Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnights on Troop Campouts. This reduced level of controlled risk and required competency should leave plenty of space to work real-world leadership skills examples into the six meetings, Training Hike, and Training Overnight without making the PLC meetings too long.
We skipped the training hike, and instead scheduled the training overnight every three months on a regular basis. We camped Friday night and returned home late Saturday afternoon. The Patrol Leaders rehearsed the skills scheduled to be taught at the next three campouts. For instance: 1) A fishing five mile hike, 2) A hot lunch campfire skills hike, 3) A cold lunch woods tools hike to clear brush. Patrol Leaders weak in a particular skill could be brought up to speed, or in some cases a Troop Guide would accompany his Patrol (the Troop Method).
Ideally the hikes were done round-robin: Patrol A doing the fishing hike the first month, and the campfire skills hike the second month; Patrol B doing the campfire skills hike the first month, and the woods tools hike the second; and so on so that each Patrol was always off to a different location. But the perfect remote fishing lake was at one camp, the Camp Ranger with saplings to clear was at another camp, and the camp with enough remote multiple fire rings to allow each Scout to build his own fire was at a third camp, making for Troop Method creep if we weren't careful.
- Jul 2013
SSScout commented07-06-2013, 09:15 AMEditing a commentFounded: created, established, started up.
Found: Discovered, recovered, retrieved that which was lost or misplaced,
Look on: Observe from the side vs Look at: See or watch directly..,
- Apr 2009
- Jan 2006
My best example of "leadership Learned": I was sitting in on a PLC led by our SM. They were all newbie PLs and a new SPL. SM was talking about what he expected of them ("Leading" their Patrols, collecting consensus as to activities, etc. ). He told them he had confidence in them , being "senior Scouts". He made some suggestions about various hikes and campouts and Troop meeting activities, and asked what the SPL would like to see happen. The SPL's response was, quote, "You mean I can decide that???"
When the SM answered in the affirmative, , you could see the light come on in the attic.....
Give away the responsibility and remind them of your expectations..... And when the expectations are not met, remind them of THAT early on,
- Jun 2006
jblake47 commented07-12-2013, 08:38 AMEditing a commentThe question was tools for understanding leadership and how to train to that understanding. Greenleaf has been around for a long time and has endured the slings and arrows of many critics. As a philosophy of leadership and how to develop it, it's been my model for boy training. While I don't have the boys buy the books and learn the details, I do use the dynamics in all that I teach. If one is going to develop leadership of the patrol leaders, one has to develop a sense of being able to take care of the boys once he gets them out into the woods. If he can't serve/lead in such a way, the boys will not follow and if they do they'll have problems.
If the PL announces he's going to take his patrol out into any adventure and he doesn't know where they are going or whether or not they can handle any and all situations once they get there and return safely, maybe my mom and dad might have reservations, but so do I. My willingness to follow such a leader is directly dependent on his ability to take care of everyone on the trek. Surely such requirements are necessary for any PL that wants to truly lead.
How does one put that into a 8 1/2" X 11" booklet? I don't know, it's not something that can be drilled down to such simplifications, but as a tool for training, every trainer needs that information in the back of his mind. It's kinda like the fact that no one has ever written a successful book on being a parent. There are underlying guidelines, but nothing in print.
Greenleaf's book is not for the scouts, it's for the trainer training the scouts correctly to be effective leaders.
One can always tell those who don't understand servant leadership, those that give it lip service and those that teach/use it.
Does it work? Well lets just say that the original books of Greenleaf are selling for twice the price of the cover price on Ebay.
Oh, and can it be taught? Yep, my Eagle Scout who thought NYLT was a waste of time, but always wanted to learn more about leadership than what was in the BSA program, just was promoted crew chief in the USAF in less than a year's time of enlistment. Yes, some boys really do pay attention.Last edited by jblake47; 07-12-2013, 06:38 PM. Reason: By the way...
07-14-2013, 08:39 AMEditing a commentThat is precisely the problem: The question was about tools for understanding leadership and how to train to that understanding.
Everyone seems to agree that the potato and cookie exercises are lame, but because the goal of Patrol Leader training is to "understand" the nature of leadership (rather than how to actually "lead" a Patrol into the backwoods), we play sheltered "skits/role-plays/games that communicate simple leadership concepts," or just sit them down in front of a TV.
As opposed to physical outdoor role-play in what Green Bar Bill calls a "Real" Patrol.
Since you are one of the very few leaders here who have actually used Green Bar Bill's Patrol Method and/or Baden-Powell's minimum standard of 300 feet between Patrols, I'm asking if you have ever taught "servant leadership" on hikes and campouts using anything similar to Hillcourt's "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol"?
If you described that process, you would be the first person in the history of "leadership skills" to relate them to "Real" Scouting.
jblake47 commented07-14-2013, 07:29 PMEditing a commentKudu,
First of all the only boys I have associated with that had experience with TLT/JLT/NYLT or whatever LT you want to define as the LT du jour, has been with boys of other troops. I had only one boy in all my years of SM ever take any "advanced" LT courses. He told me it was a total waste of time. I assumed from what he said, for him at least it must have been. Instead I have always taught the GBB patrol method. It makes sense and the boys don't need a lotta "talking-to". They just plan out the process and then just do it.
I do this all the time. I have always used GBB training of the whole patrol, not just the PL's/ASPL's. Everyone's got a job and all those jobs are directly related to "taking care of the others". Whether it be safety/first aid, cooking, keeping the group on task/trail as map/compass navigator, it doesn't make any difference. You need to do the job for the welfare of others, not just to have a stupid patch and/or gain advancement recognition.
In my program, this month's outing has John as PL and maybe next month Pete is going to lead. I found the patch/advancement (carrot/stick) routine never really taught the boys to worry about anything other than themselves. Once they grasp on to servant leadership, then at various times throughout the weekend, the boys are in fact handing off their leadership to each other on a rather routine basis.
And it's not just GBB stuff either. I start my boys on servant leadership right with the TF requirement #9 - The Buddy System. No, this is not something for the lakefront, this is an all-the-time expectation in my troop. Taking care of someone other than oneself is the first step in servant leadership. Yes, boys, the world doesn't revolve around you and your cell phone! You're homesick? Too bad, your buddy needs you this week. Your buddy's homesick, better cheer him up, he's breaking Rule #3 (Have fun.)
It must have been working, they removed me from the SM position because I expected too much leadership from the boys. The boys that would rather lead by bullying and dictating, found themselves in a minority amongst the boys and finally rallied their parents into the process rather than learn to lead. Kinda like pulling the political string so as to by pass the real process.
GBB's patrol method works every easily under servant leadership dynamics, far better than anything else I've "read through" because from what over view I see on these programs, it's not something I feel appropriate to teach.
- Jun 2002
Was it on the old Newhart show that during town meetings some faceless voice in the back of the hall kept yelling "I OBJECT" to everything?
It was funny then.
If anyone wants a copy of the 1990s JLT course syllabus, or in my humble opinion GBB's better BROWNSEA 22 syllabus for leadership training purposes, PM me.
One of the things I remember as a youth was a day long training course for PLs and other youth leaders put on by the district. The staff consisted of those Scouts who went through BROWNSEA 22 ( BA 22) in the district, or from neighboring districts. It was excellent. Unfortunately after I went through BA 22, it was announced that we would no longer have BA 22 courses, so the district trainings ceased as well. We passed on what we learned by our example and mentoring.
Now I admit, I haven't been involved on the Boy Scout side of things for a while, and I know the push is for classroom style trainings. But IMHO, "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING" ( despite the misquote in the current handbook) and " SCOUTING IS OUTING!" as GBB would say. Get them in the outdoors and doing traditional stuff and throw a class (for lack of a better word) or two of training at them. Doesn't have to be long and it can be over several months. And don't just limit it to your PLs, get all the scouts involved.
And while videos can serve a purpose, I admit I think 2 sections of FOLLOW ME BOYS would be very useful in SM Fundamentals, a discussion with them would be best IMHO. Use the Socratic Method of guided questions and answers to lead them on the discussion on the various topics of leadership.
As Stosh points out, there is all kinds of leadership materials out there, I should know as I have a "Leadership Collection" at my library. But as he also states, you got to read and be careful what points of them you want to use. BUT in my honest opinion, out of all the leadership courses and books I've ever read, the best one for youth would be BROWNSEA 22. Heck I used parts of it for IOLS. Whenever I read reviews of leadership books, or have sat through trainings, I am always reminded of BA22.
MattR commented07-14-2013, 11:41 PMEditing a commentEagle92, PMs don't seem to work. Any chance you can attach it to a post?
07-14-2013, 11:43 PMEditing a commentI'd love to get either or both of those syllabuses (syllabi?), but the message board won't let me send you a PM (says I'm "not authorized").
Bad news and good news. Bad news is that both syllabi are no longer on my computer. Good news is that A) I have a back up somewhere and B) I made multiple copies and passed them around on DVD with other folks in my district. So please bear with me.