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Venture Crews at summer camp

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  • #46
    I'm not looking for an answer, just trying to understand where your thought process are coming from. We disagree, nothing more. I think there is absolutely a place and time for separating the genders. I don't hang with my wife and her girlfriends when they go out. My buddies wives don't attend our Boy's Nights Out. We all need that time apart. I think it's socially healthy. I'm not convinced that a full homogenizing of society is the right answer.

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    • #47
      Simmons,

      We do disagree, and that's good. Disagreement can produce discussion the leads to an examination of not only our positions on issues, but the viability of the logic behind the positions, and bring to light variables we may not have thought of.

      Structured group activities, designed to educate and/or cause personal development, are distinguishable from voluntary social interaction. In short, co-ed school, sport, or scout programs, in no way parallel a girls, or guys, night out.

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      • #48
        That should make football really interesting. Linewomen. Olympics sure would be boring.

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        • #49
          There're people in each gender of varied physical and metal abilities. I've met a few ladies that would make good linebackers, and many that would make fantastic quarterbacks. To each their on place, a place determined by skill, talent, and ability, not gender.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
            BD I am a little confused about the timeline here. On Monday the Crew was called into the office by I assume the Camp Director then on Tuesday night there were some assignations? Neutral territory or the crews campsite? Does seem outrageous only the boys were punished. Sent home for out past lights out seems a bit extreme especially considering these women are at least 14. I know your troop is the "wrong" color, these women didn't happen to be the "right" color ?

            My boys were not involved and we had zero issue with ethnicity this year.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by gsdad View Post
              If boys are that horned up after being away from girls for a week, they have some serious issues. The girls in the crew should have adhered to the camp dress code, the leaders who made those comments need to get their heads out of their backsides. If it can be done on a scale as big as the Jamboree, it can be done locally.

              Didn't your daughter return from the jambo with a new boyfriend......How many youth were sent home for encounters in the woods??? I heard a number, but won't repeat it as I do not have first hand knowledge.

              Evidently you haven't been around 13-15 year old boys much.......they are wound up by nature.

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              • #52
                Yes she did, and she adhered to the dress code of scout shorts and t-shirts. That "relationship" lasted for two weeks from the Jambo. Being two states away doused the fires of love rather quickly.


                I coach 16yo girls in softball, I see the boys around the field like hyenas on a carcass. I was also a 13-15yo boy once and remember it didn't take much to wind me up.

                If there is a dress code it should be enforced. The young women at all of the Venturing outings I've attended adhere to the dress code.


                Last edited by gsdad; 10-16-2014, 09:05 AM.

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                • #53
                  This is where you SM's need to have a talk with your boys about proper behavior. As a Venturing Advisor for over 14 years I can tell you that no Venturing girl (14-18) is even slightly interested in a boy scout 11-14 years old. We are not the Prude Scouts of America so no need making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as the girls are not running around in their underwear or nothing at all this really is a non issue.

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                  • #54
                    Where are you guys who were having problems located? Summer camp, last year for us, included a large number of female Venture Crew counselors. All the young ladies were in proper uniform around camp, and wore pretty modest 1 piece bathing suits at the pool and lake. I was impressed by the professionalism of all of the counselors.

                    It was actually one of the 50+ y/o ASMs, not any of the boys, who commented on "the little blonde with the nice rack". Having a similarly equipped 14 y/o daughter, I found this particularly creepy.

                    What I did observe was that even my 16 year old boys seemed oblivious to the girls - they were there to do scout stuff. I realize it's in the nature of both girls and boys to explore these feelings generated by their newly active hormones, but a mature, educated teen can easily control their urges. It's up to the adults to teach the youth to be mature.

                    If there were any inappropriate activities after lights out, we didn't hear of them. Whatever went on in counselor camp, I couldn't tell you, but I would assume there was adult oversight there. Perhaps it was the bears talking to each other at night that kept everyone in their own campsite after lights out.

                    In all, I have to say that camp last year was improved by having the Venture Crews there.

                    Now if one of you will please com get this annoying mother who throws a fit because she can't sleep in until 8:00 a.m on campouts due to us men being up at 4:30 making coffee...

                    As an aside, it is the 21st century. Why is race or ethnicity even mentioned here? I realize scouts and churches are the two most segregated organizations in the country, but if we don't actively tear down that wall, it will stand forever.

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                    • #55
                      Some of these posters have had to deal with race/class slurs directed to the boys in their troops. Within my troop, there is a cultural divide between inner city and suburban boys. Parents who've paid big bucks to "flee the blight" have bent my ear so bad I wanted to wash it out on the spot. And young women in my crew are the best that can be found anywhere, yet I've had to deal with adults saying they'd ruin scouting for little junior. I've had to deal with adults who tried to defend boys who were sexually harassing female staff (who were professional as you describe). Fortunately, the boys in all of these cases were smart enough to negotiate these choppy waters (apologizing profusely where necessary). The adults, well some got the burrs out of their butts, and others found someplace else to build their little fiefdoms.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by oddball View Post

                        It was actually one of the 50+ y/o ASMs, not any of the boys, who commented on "the little blonde with the nice rack". Having a similarly equipped 14 y/o daughter, I found this particularly creepy.

                        What I did observe was that even my 16 year old boys seemed oblivious to the girls - they were there to do scout stuff. I realize it's in the nature of both girls and boys to explore these feelings generated by their newly active hormones, but a mature, educated teen can easily control their urges. It's up to the adults to teach the youth to be mature.
                        Oddball,l when I originally read this I thought you said "I was actually one of the..." and I was all like, say what? I see now that you were referring to another person altogether. At any rate, not very Scout-like behavior.

                        Regardless of whose hormones are raging or who was wearing whatever kind of swimming suit, I think it's incredibly unfair to blame the girls for any of this. Oddball, your Scouts sound like good young men who were at camp to do camp stuff and not let those short-wearing, swimsuit-clad young ladies bother them.

                        I understand the sentiment of the OP but I don't find it helpful to being Scout-like. We're trying to foster young men of character and these boys will grow into men who will have to live with and appreciate women for being citizens just like them. Segregation of the sexes at summer camp just doesn't seem like a good way to help boys become good, women-respecting men.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Basementdweller View Post
                          One leader chimed up if you dress like a tramp you get treated like a tramp.
                          I don't care how the girls were (or weren't) dressed... courteous and kind are still two points of the Scout Law! A girl dressing like a "tramp" doesn't mean that those two principles no longer apply to how a Scout should carry himself.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by SMMatthew View Post
                            I don't care how the girls were (or weren't) dressed... courteous and kind are still two points of the Scout Law! A girl dressing like a "tramp" doesn't mean that those two principles no longer apply to how a Scout should carry himself.
                            And exactly how much is in the Boy Scout Handbook (or any other BSA material) about how a scout should carry himself around a scantily dressed and very friendly young lady?

                            Maybe the boys thought it would be discourteous to not arrange to meet them someplace privately after hours. And it would be unkind to wake their SM after his very hard day!

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                            • #59
                              A recent experience has me thinking a mountain is being made out of a molehill, or an isolated incident is being touted as commonplace. Or perhaps we are projecting our own lechery onto our children?

                              Case in point. I was a timer at my daughter's swim meet last night. Boys/young men in Speedos, girls/young ladies in skin tight swim suits. The was no ogling, groping, drooling, etc. on the parts of either the male or female athletes. Lots of high-fives, and a couple of hugs, but no sneaking off to the dark corners of the pool.

                              Maybe it is the adult leaders who need to check themselves.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by qwazse View Post
                                And exactly how much is in the Boy Scout Handbook (or any other BSA material) about how a scout should carry himself around a scantily dressed and very friendly young lady? Maybe the boys thought it would be discourteous to not arrange to meet them someplace privately after hours. And it would be unkind to wake their SM after his very hard day!

                                Well... page 118 of the current Boy Scout Handbook says:
                                A Scout Is Chivalrous...He should be very courteous to women.

                                ...and page 120 states:
                                True maturity comes from acting ethically in the following ways:True maturity comes from acting ethically in the following ways:
                                • Your responsibility to women: Whenever you like to be with someone you want the best for that person. A healthy relationship is supportive and equal.
                                and:
                                Girls you know are becoming young women. The are maturing physically and emotionally. Your relationships with them will become closer and more meaningful, both to you and to them. Sex is not the most important or grown-up part of a relationship. Having sex is never a test of manliness.

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