RememberSchiff 3663 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Just shake my head. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'm glad he is able to be honest about himself. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3663 Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Not sure he is. Not to single him out, just becoming aware of a couple of my former scouts who lost their way with their lives. And I pulled out the shoebox of memories and had a similar copy of this ad. So it goes. Link to post Share on other sites
PbW 28 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Maybe I'm not long enough in the tooth to understand the reference. Why is this image head shake worthy? Link to post Share on other sites
LeCastor 641 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Maybe I'm not long enough in the tooth to understand the reference. Why is this image head shake worthy? PbW, this is Bruce Jenner, the Olympic gold medalist. I don't think it's head shake worthy unless you are opposed to transgendered men and women. Schiff, Packsaddle got it right. Jenner is able to be honest and I personally don't find this situation as losing the way in life. Jenner's transgender issues are not your own. I know you don't mean to single Jenner out here, as you said, but by posting this photo and suggesting that the way has been lost you have done just that. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 ... I know you don't mean to single Jenner out here' date=' as you said, but by posting this photo and suggesting that the way has been lost you have done just that. [/quote'] I'll allow Schiff the right to be disappointed. A lot of us think scouting teaches boys to be comfortable in their own skin. Translating that into gender expression used to be clear-cut. The folks who want to blurr those lines have been promoting a new paradigm of self-satisfaction at any cost. "If it makes them happy, why not?" What we see on the ground is a bunch of fine young men "loosing their way". Not living up to our standards -- or any standards. It could their choices in life mates, it could be not being willing to do an honest day's work, in could be heavy drinking, whatever .... and you interpret what they're doing as an attempt to find personal happiness, yet those attempts rarely bring joy and they often heap on sorrow. So, yeah, the head shakes. And, if your former scouts have to go through what the media portrays of Jenner (even if that's a fraction of the story), it doesn't make it shake less. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LeCastor 641 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'll allow Schiff the right to be disappointed.. I'm certainly not suggesting that Schiff should not be entitled to be disappointed. My point is that I don't agree with the suggestion that transgender issues are our business. A Scout is Courteous and Kind. Period. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3663 Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Transgender? Didn't know about that. Jenner seems (to me) to have lost himself in his unreal reality family and I have two former scouts in a similar going nowhere situation. That old ad hit me with a brick - "...there's no guarantee...you never know." If Peter Pan wants to join my troop, it would be okay with me. I may have more Lost Boys. Link to post Share on other sites
PbW 28 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 My father in law earned his eagle in the 60's and just a few years ago finally figured out why he's felt slightly off of center his whole life. He came out to his daughters as transgendered. I feel no less respect for the man than I did before he came to understand himself. I really hate how gender identity and sexuality are hyperlinked to morality in this country. Who you choose for a partner has no bearing on your morality or worth as a human being. It's certainly not worth shaking a head at. Edit: To clarify my point... Shiff stated that he didn't know Jenner was transgendered and posted this because of other reasons he felt Jenner had lost his way. I wasn't intending my rant at Schiff about it. More a general statement on society in the US. Maybe not in my neck of the woods here in the burbs of Chicago... but hard to deny it exists. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DigitalScout 75 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 A scout is brave. I tell our scouts that they must do what is right in their heart and be true to themselves because there will be times when social pressure will conflict with their values. "Those that matter don't mind. Those that mind, don't matter." Kudos to Bruce Jenner for being brave and being true to himself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TAHAWK 1420 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Your right to be true to yourself and to do what's right in your heart ends, shall we say, at the end of my nose - or someone else's. Doing what seemed right and true led to lots of lynchings at one period in our history. It currently leads to a lot of drug consumption (No 1 cause of accidental death in NE Ohio). Is there a limit to "bravely" ignoring social norms? Is it always best - for the actor? for society? Society's proposed or imposed limits (obviously) change over time. Time often also tells us if the shift was for the better or the worse, as we shall see with the current trend to allow more drug consumption and raise the highway speed limits.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 A scout is brave. I tell our scouts that they must do what is right in their heart and be true to themselves because there will be times when social pressure will conflict with their values. ... I tell a scout to be true to God and his Country. Self comes in a close third, but only in terms of physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LeCastor 641 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Maybe we should move this over to "Issues and Politics"? Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 ...waking up....what? huh? I thought this WAS Issues and Politics. My bad. If the discussion continues in this direction I'll move it. Link to post Share on other sites
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