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Green Bar Bill Excluded from National Scouting Museum

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  • #31
    I'm imagining an animatronic Kudu at the Scout Museum, commissioned by the Chief Scout Executive, and only making polite and supportive comments about programs coming out of the national office.


    • #32

      Back about a year ago, they had a small, 1 case exhibit of Bill's stuff. It was in relation to Woodbadge but it was a temporary exhibit. So, they have exhibited him there, just not an homage.

      David C. Scott


      • #33
        SeattlePioneer writes:

        I'm imagining an animatronic Kudu at the Scout Museum, commissioned by the Chief Scout Executive, and only making polite and supportive comments about programs coming out of the national office.


        Just don't let it be "cheesy"


        • #34

          How about two animatronic figures one of Kudu and one of Mazzucca in an all out cage match, throwing scouting program opinions back and forth at each other, in full uniform of course. Just kidding Kudu.


          • #35
            My money's on Kudu. Doesn't look like Mazzucca has truly been in the field since long before jambo.


            • #36
              Bill, of course, retired in August, 1965.

              Having worked for decades and retired after winning the fight to establish the patrol method in an outdoor-oriented program, Bill must have been shocked by the "Improved" program rolled out in 1972.

              (West was famously suspicious of boy leadership. He wrote of the dangers it presented - in his mind. As for patrols, West suggested that Scouts to be distributed between counselors at summer camp, rather than camping in patrols or troops. Very YMCA. West even suggested that Scoutmasters be employees of B.S.A. It was all about control.)

              (It says a lot that the authors of the 1972 disaster "discovered" that Scouting was "urban-centered." It had been strongest in cities and suburbs from the beginning. It also says a lot that they never bother to "ask" the customers what product they wanted. After all, they new better than the kids.)

              Why it took until 1976 to start rolling back the "improvements" with "All Out for Scouting" (developed by Bill) is as great a mystery as the changes in 1972. Took until 1978 to officially scrap "The Improved Scouting program."

              Bill, of course, was involved in the writing of the Patrol Leader Handbook 3rd Ed., replacing the ghastly "Patrol and Troop Leadership Handbook." I suspect nothing published by BSA since has been as useful to a Patrol Leader.

              I was lucky to meet Bill twice. Once was at a multi-council 75th anniversary camporee in 1985. He signed Handbooks for many hours. During a break due to rain, I and two other Scouters got to speak to him - well, largely listen to this fascinating man -- for nearly an hour. At the show that night, he refused to escape the misty rain by standing under the canopy erected for the "bigs." He stood in the rain in his hat and red jacket, sharing the conditions the Scouts were enduring. The paid folk sent out aids to hold an umbrella over him, but he kept moving away. The Scouts saw it and I could hear them commenting that "Bill" was "out here in the rain like us." Eventually, they began applauding. The leading big shots (SE'and counsel officers) reluctantly emerged from the canopy, but they each had an underling holding umbrellas.

              In 1992, he honored us by attending our Wood Badge reunion breakfast. He was obviously declining physically, but his mind was intact, as was his sense of humor. He singed a good many T-shirts, books, and whatever.

              Then he was suddenly gone.

              The corporation failing, it is up to Scouting to keep his memory green.


              • #37
                Disgusting. What next National, are you going to edit down William Hillcourt wiki?

                Over the weekend, I kept thinking that if real leaders came in the BSA, that this insult would be quickly corrected with a heart-felt, formal apology.

                Maybe we can recruit Robert Gates (soon to be former Secretary of Defense) to become Chief Scout Executive and Mike Rowe as Chief Scout? Bring back leadership, respect, adventure, and enthusiasm to the BSA!

                My $0.02,


                • #38
                  I emailed to the museum and simply asked if any current display material related to Bill. I did not identify this forum or refer to the comments of the docent reported above. This is the reply I received within twenty-four hours:

                  "As to your question regarding Bill Hillcourt; currently there are no exhibits featuring Mr. Hillcourt, but in 2009 we had a display of Hillcourt memorabilia which was on exhibit for the entire year. I am attaching some photos. As to the issues discussed on that forum, I do not know which docent they spoke to, but those comments should not be held as representative of the entire BSA. I hope this helps to answer your questions. Thank you.

                  Gail Mayfield | Assistant Curator
                  BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA
                  National Scouting Museum"


                  • #39
                    The National Scouting Museum had a temporary display for one of the most respected Scouters in the history of the BSA? One whole year? Gosh, bully for them!

                    Perhaps they had to make room for the "BSA History of Visual Aids"--butcher paper, to overhead projector, to power point projector.


                    • #40
                      I'd vote for the Rowe-Gates ticket in a heartbeat!

                      I got the same reply as TAHAWK. I don't think I mentioned the docent's comments, either.


                      • #41

                        I'd vote for the Rowe-Gates ticket in a heartbeat!
                        Ditto. That's a great idea, and not all that far-fetched under the current circumstances. What else is Gates going to do, sign on with some stuffy think tank?


                        • #42
                          According to his Department of Defense biography:

                          "Dr. Gates has also served on the Board of Directors and Executive Committee of the American Council on Education, the Board of Directors of the National Association of State Universities and Land-Grant Colleges, and the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. He has also been President of the National Eagle Scout Association."


                          Considering that he was on the Board previously, his return might not bring the change some would expect.


                          • #43
                            I don't profess to know the inner workings of the National executive board, but suspect most of the actual decision making comes from the pros. I also suspect Gates "gets it" a lot more so than our current CSE. Consider some quotes from his Jambo speech:

                            I believe that today, as for the past 100 years, there is no finer program for preparing American boys for citizenship and leadership than the Boy Scouts of America. I have served eight presidents. I have traveled the world and had many extraordinary experiences. I have met many remarkable people. But, at this point in my life, I can tell you that my scouting experiences, scoutmasters, camping trips, Philmont adventures, the 1957 national jamboree at Valley Forge, and many more had huge influence in shaping my life.
                            . . .
                            I remember 60 year old Oscar Lamb taking ten of we teenagers to Philmont and hiking every blistered step with us. I remember Forrest Beckett teaching we kids in Kansas how to cook in winter on a fire of dried cow chips, imparting a distinctive flavor to already nearly inedible food. They and a handful of other volunteers along with my father my role models as a boy taught me about the scout oath and law, about teamwork, about real courage, and about leadership.
                            . . .
                            First, scouting prepares young men for leadership by helping you learn to meet challenges. Scouting continues still to thrust boys and young men into the wilderness to prove yourselves, to learn confidence and self-reliance, to learn about yourselves, about nature, and about powers greater than yourselves to learn about the power of the soul. It gives you a spirit of adventure and prepares you for lifes challenges.
                            Those seem to stand in contrast to some of the more well-publicized quotes from Mr. Mazzuca.


                            • #44
                              "Those seem to stand in contrast to some of the more well-publicized quotes from Mr. Mazzuca."

                              Therein lies the problem. The board of any institution tends to choose an executive that shares the collective thinking of the board. Institutional boards often choose celebrity members to build credibility with certain sectors of society; some board members do not share the collective thinking, but boards are usually careful not to choose too many of those people.

                              I think Mr. Gates' comments are very welcome, but those were personal comments made as an individual outside of BSA and made to suit his audience. As a former university president, Mr. Gates knows that the executive of an organization tends to be the mouthpiece of the board and, unfortunately, not of the membership.


                              • #45
                                well it appears that national pros are monitoring the forums. I bet there has been some quick damage control at national on how to address those pesky volunteers asking too many questions.

                                If I understand what TAHawk stated in his letter to the museum, that the docent's comments were not mentioned. It that is the case then Oooops, looks like national showed a bit of its hand.
                                (This message has been edited by abel magwitch)