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  • #61
    BadenP..Wow maybe you should come tell our Youth Females it has nothing to offer them...We got 'em lined up and waiting to join already with Regalia ...We had at least 6 Dance at Summer Call Out when We Had Open Dances in Ragalia. Several just turned 21 and were inducted as Adults..I wonder why They still want to join after sitting in the sidelines as a Youth in Venture Crew and was Considered unworthy to join as a Youth but bingo 21 Your IN Now. I sure would not have joined a Group that wouldn't let me join as a youth. As a side note Several of the Girls are the ones making the Boys Regalia...seems it is a Girl's duty to sew while the men provide food still..HAHA

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    • BadenP
      BadenP commented
      Editing a comment
      Well jp It truly amazes me what you relate however you are in Texas and we all know Texas is its own little world. The three councils in my area have all had the same experience with the OA and Venturing and the answer from all the Venturing youth is a big NO WAY. So your girls are sewing the boys costumes, a little sexist that would be a huge turnoff for our girls here. Good Luck to you but for all our Venturing youth the OA is a big NO!

  • #62
    well Since they are not allowed on Dance Teams or Ceremonies Teams or anything official they Help with Regalia because they Want to.. Is the Only thing as Youths they are allowed to do directly for the Lodge just like a Parent can help..Several Do Cut the grass and other "Manly" work around the Council Camp. It is a Girl that is always called upon to catch a Snake in the Pool House also...

    Well I relate my scouting experience to Where I live...just as you do. I can't tell you how a troop in Jackson Hole Wyoming would run anymore the someone else who has never been involved there. Only someone who has been involved in a Troop there will tell you how one is run.
    Last edited by jpstodwftexas; 10-04-2013, 09:15 PM. Reason: Spelliing

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    • BadenP
      BadenP commented
      Editing a comment
      And that is why the OA and Venturing will NEVER be a good match, you can't have members in the OA who are NOT allowed to fully participate in all of the activities. jp that is why the idea is so ludicrous and poorly thought out.

  • #63
    Once the decision is made the Female Youths Would be allowed to full participate in all activities..Who is saying they would be only allowed partial participation?

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    • #64
      JP, if the girls have regalia and are chomping at the bit then start a Native American Dance and Drumming Crew. They don't need the OA to do that and I certainly wouldn't make them wait for the OA membership as an adult to participate. While I have mixed emotions about the OA in Venturing debate, the OA doesn't have a monopoly on Native American Culture in scouting.

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      • qwazse
        qwazse commented
        Editing a comment
        The separate-but-equal argument is as noble and time-proven as BP's "partial participation" argument is linear.

      • dcsimmons
        dcsimmons commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah, understood. I have mixed emotions about Venturing in the OA only because I still believe there is a need for boy-only programs. That said, I wasn't trying to make a separate-but-equal argument so much as a pursue-what-you-are-interested-in argument. Why wait for the OA? If you are interested in Native American Dancing form a crew and make the Pow Wow circuits. Maybe if the girls took their sewing skills to their own Crew and the OA Lodge watched their members follow it would drive their point home. I don't know.

    • #65
      Lets see... Good Logic...Not allow Girls who want to join Order of the Arrow.. Create A New Group doing Exactly What OA does Now so Girls can Join...Boys would rather be Joining New Group where the Girls are Active..OA continues to Die...Order of The Arrow membership Continues to die...

      Order of the Arrow is More than just Native American Dancing..It is also about Service to the Council..Camp Stewardship...Community Service..Conservation Projects. It is about Friendship and Fellowship.

      As for a Monopoly on Native American Culture in Scouting...What Other Official scouting Program is there?
      What other "Honor Society of Boy scouts of America" is there?

      Boy Scouts of America needs to stop treating their own Divisions as "RED HEADED STEP CHILDREN"

      And Yes the Girls do make the Pow Wow Circuits already. They sell Regalia at Native American Pow Wows....

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      • qwazse
        qwazse commented
        Editing a comment
        Well, boys are not flies, and girls are not honey.

        But fellowship is a key component. (Like I said, I remember my OA literature encouraging co-ed activities on some level.) I could envision a few venturers starting a society of honored campers from all outdoor organizations (girl scouts, boy scouts, campfire USA, BPSA). It's just what they do. Would it gain momentum? I doubt it. They would have to be a uniquely cohesive and charismatic group of youth. (What you're observing, JP, is not being replicated widely.)

        But for the OA, the question becomes "Do you want to attract that uniquely cohesive and charismatic group?" Right now the answer is "No." And as long as scouting movements in the USA remain starkly unisex, that answer may fly.

    • #66
      *Scape goat.* And again, your are arguing from the standpoint of fairness, which in this age of situational ethics can be quickly turned on its head. Sure, this is a lot of double-speak. They are using the line that we Advisors use all the time "Venturing is a different program" as justification for opposing change.

      Venturing is a small slice of the BSA, and young women and men who weren't boy scouts yet become honor campers (by any reasonable category) are a smaller slice -- we are doing our best to change that. But until then, we are talking numbers that are seemingly inconsequential to OA's membership counts.

      The thing that young arrowmen need to ask themselves is this: "If there is an honor camper out there with the same membership card as I have, but uniformed differently than I am, do I want to be the first to recognize him/her? Or, do I want some other group to jump in line and get him/her first?"

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