Maybe I misunderstood, so let me clarify. My understanding is that Blue is friends with folks in the pack b/c the wife and kids go to the same school as some of the pack members.
In normal conversations, activities on the council level get mentioned that the pack leadership is not informing everyone else about. Pack members go the CM for more info, which ticks CM off.
If that is the case, then I would not stop discussing upcoming activities with my friends b/c the CM doesn't want me talking to them.
Now as others mentioned, going out of the way to talk to folks and get them to attend stuff is another story.
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- Aug 2008
- Jan 2010
BTW - as a UC this year, especially, at recharter you will be asking for EVERYONE to turn in email addresses, so they can possibly be selected to participate in the "Voice of the Scout" program which rolls out nationwide in 2013.
As a Commissioner is a participating Council this year, I can tell you, there is some really "interesting" comments coming in from Cub Parents, Scouts/Varsity/Venturing members 14 and older, Chartered Organizations, and District & Council Volunteers on how well the BSA is doing at running the program.
"There is a slight connection between the Pack and the CO, but the CO recently changed leadership and I'm still rebuilding that relationship. I'll be meeting with them sometime in the next few weeks, though"
So Blue why in the world are you going to meet with the IH at the CO???? Your a den leader right???? Going to get the CM fired????
Your way out of line.....
- Oct 2007
As a former ADC and UC, I'm shocked, amazed, and pissed all at the same time. Which handbook did you read?... I guess I must have missed the part where I was supposed to second guess the unit leaders and run the program as I thought it should be done....,
My handbook said Commissioners are supposed to be there to support the units, not tell them how to do things without being asked first, and certainly not to do an end-run around the unit leaders.
What you've done is given the CM an axe to grind, and word will get around, not in a good way.
Taken a step further, you may have just created a huge distrust factor between other unit leaders and your UC's. I certainly wouldn't be inviting you into my meetings, nor would I want to get more involved with district events...
You overstepped, and now need to man up & repair the fence.
(This message has been edited by Eolesen)
- Dec 2003
Simple dynamics of Scouting. When a Unit Leader ASKS for and RECEIVES help from a district/council volunteer or professional, then that district/council person will be regarded as a HERO by the Unit Leader..EVERYTIME.
Conversely, when a district or council person begins to "help" without being ASKED, then that individual becomes a PEST of high magnitude...EVERYTIME!
- Dec 2007
I'm lucky to have a great UC. Every time we talk he asks "is there anything I can do for you?". He gets it.
- Jun 2005
BluejacketScouter, as a Council Commish, you and I would be havin' a "come to Beavah" meetin' right about now.
What are yeh doin', mate?
Yeh have stepped over da line here at least half a dozen times, and you're somehow surprised that has compromised your relationship with and access to the unit? Why should that be surprising?
Havin' discovered that your approach has completely failed, yeh want to double-down on that approach? It worked so well da first time, let's do more stuff behind the Cubmaster's back?
As a Commissioner, yeh need to step up and apologize for goin' behind the cubmaster's back. Not just honor the request, but assure her it was unintentional and will never happen again. Only after you've repaired the relationship and built a new foundation of trust by bein' a good servant leader would I even consider makin' any suggestions.
Now, can I ask what your real role is? Here yeh seem to be implyin' that you're a UC. In da other thread yeh imply you're a DC. Which is it? As a DC, why are yeh muckin' around at this level when it's da UC's role? And why in da world as either a UC or a DC would yeh ever be meeting with the Chartered Organization? That's da DE's role. Da commissioners job is to work with da CO's volunteers, not with da CO.
Please don't take this da wrong way, but I think yeh need to take a break for a bit and decide what role yeh really want in Scoutin'. Right now it seems you're tryin' to do everybody's job but your own. What is the most fun for you? What keeps yeh the most energized? Is it workin' with boys and parents? Then yeh need to find a Cubmaster job. Is it coachin' and encouragin' adult peers? That's da UC's role. Is it coachin' the coaches? That's the proper role of da DC. Is it interfacin' with the customer CO on behalf of da BSA? That's the DE.
Once yeh decide where your real passion lies, go and do that job. Do that job well. Do only that job. Yeh will be much happier for it, and Scoutin' will be much stronger.
- Apr 2006
In our Pack, we inform Parents of Council events where our Pack will not take part. However, they can decide for themselves if they want to attend on an individual family basis. Scouting provides many opportunities beyond the Pack-level and I like to at least provide information about those opportunities. Council-sponsored events tend to be more expensive so we are selective what we include on the Pack calendar. As CM and father of 3 children, I do not attend every scouting event due to cost.
Now, that said, I would expect my UC to inform me and our CC that he/she would like to invite our Pack parents to an event. I'm all for a UC promoting a Scouting event but common courtesy dictates that Pack leadership should be informed first in order to prevent possible conflicts with another event the Pack might be promoting.
I am very sure old Blue is reading these two thread and his blood is boiling, because he thought he was going to come here and find support for what he is doing.....
- Sep 2007
I am the cubmaster of my pack. I would have no problem with you going directly to scout parents with news and info for district/council events. I would in fact, appreciate it. I can't keep up with everything, and a lot of times I don't even know about the events. I especially would have no problems with it, if there was a prior relationship with the parents through school or work.
This lady seems like a control freak. and after reading the whole thread, so do a lot of you. man, we are all on the same team here. it's for the kids. some of you need to get over yourselves.(This message has been edited by beardad)
I think yours would be much the more common reaction on a pack leader. Most6 pack leaders find themselves overwhelmed with program choices and wind up picking and choosing which they will make part of their program.
It might be just such a leader who has made choices and doesn't want them upset by competing programs that the District Commissioner encountered. That's understandable too, in my view. Personally, I would have just backed off and apologized.
As a Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner, I had an e-mail list of all the unit leaders in the district, including not just Cubmasters and Committee Chairs, but Committee mermbers, Chartered Organization Reps and Den Leaders and such.
I e-mailed out notices on the monthly Roundtable program and occasionally sent out notices on other program activities to help publicize them.
My experience is that if parents are offered several program choices and their time is limited, they will usually choose the one that seems most fun and appealing. If the district is promoting a fun event, it may cannibalize the program offered by the pack. So a measure of caution in promoting events directly to families may not be unreasonable.
- Jun 2007
Disclaimer, the troubles continue from Cub Scouts on up into Boy Scouts. I wrote in the other thread and chose not to post a rather blistering opinion of some not named Commissioners.
Included was a caveat that there are some great Commissioners out there (and four whom I deal with locally that I walk towards, rather than applying my bag of Ninja skills to avoid) - the ones who know they aren't there to run the unit I serve, undercut any outreach I might be doing with my Parents, who understand they are there to HELP me and provide me with info on resources I might not know I have, but not to directly contact my Scout Parents, and most of all who don't show up at a camping event and gripe me out in front of the parents AND the boys. Mostly because I have thus far chosen not to attend Woodbadge (after having been told by other Commissioners that I shouldn't go(they implied couldn't go) until I had several years under my belt after getting "Trained" as it was really a "Capstone" training event for "Seasoned" Scouters) and also because I don't "force" the Scouts to every single District or Council event.
Well, we have our own Calendar and sometimes the boys choose not to go to the Council event because theirs is more fun AND (for instance)some group of Commissioners are threatening to burn their sled after the Klondike.
Commissioners really need to learn their own (can I say ding-dang here?)jobs before they come and interfere with mine. Be a resource, not a road block Commissioners.
- Nov 2009
There are two seperate issues here:
What is going on in this thread, and what is going on in the other.
Two different issues with two different acceptabilities.
In this thread - let's break it down:
"My children attend school in the Pack's area, my wife works there also. So I do know many of the families and talk to them."
These are friends and aqqaintances...not total strangers. He has regular contact that would happen even if not involved in scouting.
"There are Council and District events the Pack does not participate in. Recently I was talking to a few parents while at school and discovered the families are not being told of events."
Why do the families have no clue about these events?
"Therefore, they are not getting getting the opportunity to attend activities that the Pack is not directly involved in."
Wow! Not only does that suck, but is very unprofessional of the CM and unscoutlike!
"I made it a point to invite those families I was talking to, to an upcoming event."
I have done this to scouts who were not only not in my pack, but not even in my district! As do most leaders that are volunteer and paid. As Scouters, we support and promote scouting. It's what we do and part of our job as leaders. It's what scouting is all about! PERIOD!
" I was soon approached by the Cubmaster about this (one of the families must have asked her for more details about the event). She stated that she felt the event was too expensive for the families ($9 event fee) and therefore decided that the Pack would not participate. "
Replace "too expensive" with boring, stupid, waste of time or "not approved by CM ". It is not the CM's job to decide what is too expensive or what is affordable. The CM is overstepping her authority and out of line here.
"I am 100% behind her on the decision to organize and participate as a Pack, or not."
Yeah, that is the pack's right..meaning the whole pack or the committee or leaders who decide together.
" However she is not giving the families the chance to make up their own minds to attend individually, because she's not telling them about it."
Power hungry? Control freak? Has to be in absolute charge? Red flags and alarms going off everywhere. Is she going to be a SM one day who picks out and assigns eagle projects? Does she decide that MB.s not earbed within the troop are not valid? Do scouts ever go to summer camp? Are camp MB's written off as " not authorized?
Where does it end?
Forget Philmont or Betchel! Northern Tier?.....never gonna happen!
What happens when a den leaders gets his den to go to resident camp? Is he suddenly on the CM's s*** list? Will CM decide that the DL is rogue and needs to be kicked out?
Sorry, but like Beardad said, some of you need to get over yourselves.
Remember why we are here, what it's about and not some huffy puffy social staus withing the scouting hierarchy!
God forbid anybody other than the CM tell families about some scouting events.
I guess if the CM decides she doesn't want to camp anymore, camping will become a non pack type activity. Maybe the CM will black list the council camp promotor and complain to the SE about the scout office mailing out flyers.
Again, there are two seperate issues.
DC overstepped his authority when he started printing flyers for recruiting. No arguement there,
But CM does not have monopoly over who gets to talk to scouts and parents about scouting events and oppertunities.
THis CM is gonna cause this pack to fold . No doubt about it.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)
The Pack has a program of activities. It's decided on a program of inexpensive activities rather than pay higher prices for district and council activities.
That's entirely legitimate, in my view.
There are THOUSANDS of activities Cub Scout families COULD do. The pack has no obligation to promote those in competition with its own program even if some are council or district activities.
My pack met a week ago and considered four different activities for Saturday. One was chosen and three were discarded. No effort was made to inform families of all four activities. We had a good turnout and a great time on the pack activity that was chosen.
Perhaps it was discussed at a pack committee meeting which Blujacket didn't attend. Or perhaps Bluejacket didn't attend the program planning meeting where a decision was made.
There a certain balance between the district and council promoting activities and events and undermining pack programs. It sounds to me that in this instance the Cubmaster thought his program was being undermined by the District Commissioner.
I doubt that the DC was doing so intentionally, but perhaps he was a little too pro active. However, I could easily see myself doing the same thing and being miffed if a Cubmaster yipped at me.
- Jul 2012
Yes, Many times we are our own worst enemy. It's not about US and our ego trips. We are privileged to be in these positions as servant leaders. Sometimes we need to stop and do a self-assessment of ourselves. I hope he does have the "stones" to post on this again. Some of us would like to know how the conflict was resolved.
Yours In Cheerful Service.