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  • #16
    What are the rules for the Dutch ovens?

    Just curious.

    Stosh

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    • #17
      Gee wizz...sound like something I might have written my first year in scouts...I think cubbing can do that to you.

      I agree with most of it but it sounds so complicated. We prefer two boys to a tent but if a boy wants to be solo if it is OK with his parents if he is a newbie that is OK. Yea we discourage 3 and forbid more unless there is an emergency. As for SF requirements! My son and his bestie shared a one man backpacking tent on the AT...I thought it was super cramped but they were the only warm ones on a cold night. We usually clear this up by an annual gear discussion led by the older boys...

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      • #18
        How does one boy to a tent justify the buddy system? How does one keep track of the sleep walkers? How about the boy who gets up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and doesn't come back for some reason, i.e. trips and falls in the dark?

        I would rather have an 8-man patrol tent than 8 solo tents any day.

        At summer camp they slept 2 to a wall tent, but the patrols put 4 wall tents end to end and had one big lodge tent. They loved it and I didn't have a problem of boys wandering off in the middle of the night.

        In my troop, everyone is buddied up. Only solo scout is a PL with odd number in a patrol.

        In my troop as a kid, it was 4 patrols, 4 big wall tents.

        Stosh

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        • #19
          WOW. That gives a bad name to lawyers. As a lawyer with knowledge of the intent of the BSA program, I would have written the policy as: A scout can use any tent they would like and, if they wish, not use a tent at all. A scout can share a tent with anyone (consistent with GTSS) or tent by themselves. Scouts are encouraged to choose tent options that are appropriate for the expected conditions, recognizing that scouts learn from making both good and bad decisions. Patrol leaders are encouraged to work with the scouts in their patrol to make sure that scouts understand the benefits and drawbacks of different tenting options and understand how to properly care for tents. But then again, those rules are so common sense, they don't need to be written down.

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          • #20
            I thought all BSA summer camps provided tents. Those canvas wall tents with no floors or screens on platforms with outriggers....no?

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            • #21
              Two questions. For those that have a no more than two to a tent rule, what are your justifications? Stosh, is a scout seriously required to wake up his buddy at 3AM and have him follow his buddy over to the tree line for a leak? Or stand outside the latrine for 10 minutes if necessary?

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              • #22
                The only input I think the CC should have regarding tents is in regarding how much of the troop's money to spend, how many to buy and what kind. The rest of the policy should be re-written to: The Scoutmaster and Senior Patrol Leader will make decisions on a campout to campout basis in regards to tenting arrangements.

                I agree with most. CC is overstepping.

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                • #23
                  Three season tents? Those are fairly heavy, so I guess the troop in question just does car camping? No ultralight?

                  When I was younger, my old troop had these wall tents; five to a tent was common. The problem with single occupancy tents is that the total of all the footprints may be larger than the campsite. Thus, hardly leave no trace. When canoeing with three to a canoe if you just allow two man then one Scout is always going to feel like the odd man out.
                  Waterproof tents are generally not a good idea. You want the fabric breathable. The fly over the tent is generally the waterproof part. As for retaining heat in cold weather, I have never seen an insulated tent except for an Indian teepee packed with leaves between the wall and its liner.

                  Sounds like the 7 x 7 requirement is his interpretation of state or Federal rules for summer camps.
                  Some areas - such as Philmont - prefer you not sleep under the stars

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                    Two questions. For those that have a no more than two to a tent rule, what are your justifications? Stosh, is a scout seriously required to wake up his buddy at 3AM and have him follow his buddy over to the tree line for a leak? Or stand outside the latrine for 10 minutes if necessary?
                    No, but if my buddy doesn't come back after a reasonable amount of time, I might want to check it out. It's called taking care of your buddy, Tenderfoot requirement #9. It's part of our leadership training. The SM and adults are 300' away so the boys need to be watchful of each other especially in the middle of the night. If it's a new Webelos boy and it's his first time out, then YES, his buddy is expected to be up at 3:00 am and follow him to the tree line or stand outside the KYBO for 10 minutes, or whatever it takes to help him.

                    We had a situation where the boys were when they woke up in the morning they had X number of boys and X number of sleeping bags. Except one boy forgot his bag and bunked in with is brother. They found out about their problem when the camp ranger found him at his doorstep at 3:00 am. and he bunked him in for the rest of the night. It's kinda embarrassing to have the ranger show up with your boy 4 hours later and you know nothing about him being gone.

                    Stosh

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                    • #25
                      My only experience with losing a scout in the middle of the night was with two Wolf cubs tenting together but adjacent to their dads. One kid got up in the night and his buddy rolled over an went back to sleep. The only detail the buddy. Could provide was "it was dark out." After a 90 minute search the CM of the adjacent pack brought him over. He was in line for breakfast and they hadn't noticed him. Consequently I don't put a lot of stock in the safety provided by an unconscious tent mate. Frankly, if a kid can't manage to get himself to the loo and back he probably doesn't need to be in scouting. Our troop provides each patrol three two-man tents and one three-man. The three-man is available to accommodate an odd number of as a perq to the PL if he wants the space. No prohibition against sleeping under the stars, in hammocks or solo (although we do discourage it with newbies. They may say they want to sleep alone but they frequently change their mind after lights out. ) We discourage but don't ban personal tents. We got tired of mediating disputes between landlords and tenants. The only rule we have in no Coleman Condos for the reasons KDD mentioned. With 8 guys in a tent SOMEONE is always awake talking.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Twocubdad View Post
                        Frankly, if a kid can't manage to get himself to the loo and back he probably doesn't need to be in scouting.
                        Let me get this straight.... It's important in the middle of the day the boys are always buddied up. If one has a problem, there's a ton of people around and awake to help. But in the middle of the night, if one has a problem, and everyone else is asleep, they shouldn't be in scouting. So when everyone's looking, make sure the buddy system is in place, but after hours when no one is watching, it's really not that big of a deal. Got it.

                        On the other hand, after 40+ years of working with youth of all ages, I've never misplaced one... ever. Never even came close. My boys buddy 24/7 and PL knows where they have gone if they are not in camp. I've also had youth in areas that I required groups of 5 as a minimum. Downtown urban setting, co-ed groups, no one leaves the hotel unless accompanied by 4 other people, preferably one of them over 18 years of age.

                        Yes, that's an adult imposed rule (Stosh Rule #1). Buddy up, I don't want to have to go looking for you in the middle of the night. Definition of Night Terrors? Getting awakened at 3:00 am to the words, "Mr. B, I don't know where my buddy is."

                        Stosh

                        I take it back, one boy did lose his buddy. The council thought it would be a good idea to have an all-nighter camporee. Well, one of my boys fell asleep at one of the stations and his buddy walked off without him. He noticed it about 5 minutes later when he got to the next station and his buddy wasn't there. He and PL went back and got him with the PL chewing on his ear the whole time.
                        Last edited by jblake47; 08-14-2014, 11:41 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Or... Talk about bear attacks at the the campfire....that should keep them close. Sounds like you run a real tight ship. Congrats. How do you handle MB classes at the local BSA Mint? Require two scouts to have the exact same schedule? From what I have seen during session time Buddy System goes out the window and is just given lip service.

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                          • #28
                            Although I do not agree with the tenting solo policy, I can think of certain instances where it could be done. OA does it to some degree with the ordeal. I think that if you have two buddies in adjoining tents and they have to let one another know if they wish to leave the campsite. The distance traveled would determine if they have to be accompanied. I have had boys come to inform me in the middle of the night if their buddy is sick, having an asthma attack, or has some other type of problem. This is the importance of the buddy system, because the one afflicted may not be able to easily come to my tent to notify me of what is going on.

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                            • #29
                              BTW, the author of the proposed policy is an engineer and not a lawyer....

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
                                What are the rules for the Dutch ovens?

                                Just curious.

                                Stosh
                                Would need to deal with size, how many can be stacked, cleaning (and lining), seasoning, how many coals on the top and bottom, when to refuel, how to handle a hot lid. It also needs to outline charcoal vs wood. Dutch ovens are really complex.

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