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  • CS Program Chanages

    Hey guys, I want to apologize in advance if this has been beaten to death, but i did a search on the subject, and didn't really come up with what I was looking for. So if this needs to be moved somewhere more appropriate feel free to do so.

    What i have saw by reading some of the threads I did find seem to be more of the complaints of the new programs. Which I understand, change is a lot of times very unpopular to some folks or difficult to adapt to. However, in my opinion, after the little bit of reading I have done about the subject (the info on the scouting.org program updates page) the way I interpret things are that the changes are going to make things more hands on for the boys. It seems to me that they are trying to engage the boys natural instinct to want to explore things. Also, from an administration standpoint, I think this will be easier for the leaders to implement. Now maybe I am interpreting things with rose colored glasses, or perhaps i'm just niave, But i am inticipating my pack will greatly benefit by these changes.

    We can argue all day long about the changes in the immediate recognition changes, and webelos transition issues until we are blue in the face, but when you take a look at the changes as a whole, or at least what has been made public so far seems positive. Am I the only one that feels this way? or am I just missing something?


    not looking to judge, just looking for opinions.


  • #2
    Your not alone, from bottom to top I like the CS program changes. Typically I'm not a fan boy of what national pushes out, but I think they got it right this time.

    The program looks like it will be easier to understand, deliver, and track. The themes, and related activities, are designed as a springboard for fun. Everything is not only labeled, but designed as an actual adventure. The Tiger and Webelo program have long been plagued with problems, and the new program resolved these issues decisively. With all of that being said, what I like best is the smooth flow of the Cub Scout to Boy Scout transition, which new start on day one as a Tiger, and the precision with which the new program is designed to achieve the aims of scouting.

    I've not seen this program in action yet, but I'm 100% sold.

    Comment


    • #3
      In general I think the new program is good. I have a few nit picks with it, but the current one has issues too. I am not sure that the changes they made are actually all that different. It appears that in general, they just reorganized what they already had.

      It does bother me that all the "feedback" is all over the top positive and that they have drastically changed the program. They didn't, and in general I think they changed it to just change it rather than for any particularly good reasons.

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      • #4
        Much of my excitement i feel is from me being a new leader/cubmaster after a year with an extremely poorly ran program that we are trying to turn around. If anything makes running the program "as designed" so to speak becomes simplified, that will go a long way with our current den leaders continuing to lead without burnout.

        If i didn't have enough on my plate already, I was recently nominated to sit on the District Committee and I accepted. We had a meeting last night and I asked if they knew anything about when potential rollout of new program training, or if much of anything about it at all. Our DE straight up told us she has heard absolutley nothing yet. But yeah, I'm just trying to gather as much info as I can so I can be prepared when the implementation does begin!

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        • #5
          I think I will wait to form a REAL opinion when the program is put into place.

          Thats my opinion

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          • #6
            I went from tiger to wolf den leader. The difference in rank systems is huge. I like the national approach of similar rank systems each year. The difference supposedly will be in the program requirements. It should be easier to transition leaders and parents from rank to rank.

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            • #7
              Most of the comments I have seen
              - Tigers - will take longer but most thought it was too easy to beging with
              - Getting rid of the sports and academic loops and pins. It will allow for more focus on the actually program. It might save packs some money if you have scouts and dens that forcus on these
              - Replacing the immediate recognition beads with loops - people are concerned with the cost. I don't know many who like the beads
              - Webelos transition - This was the biggest issue. They fixed this. The Web 1 will be able to finish AOL under the old program.
              - AOL - no longer requires webelos. It seemslike this will allow recruitment of 5th graders and they will still earn something. Rather than neededing to complete webelos on their own since the rest of the den would have earned it the past year
              - Cyber chip - It looks like this is required every year. Is directing the scouts to fcus more on computers in their best interest or should we be getting them outdoors?

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              • #8
                Sidney, regarding the Immediate recognition emblems, I must be in the minority about liking the dangles. Perhaps its nostalgia as that's what I wore, that's what I wish my boys could wear. However I don't like them or dislike the new system enough for the changes to be a big issue for me. t

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                • #9
                  Looks like this new system is going to kinda blow a hole in the idea that AOL is the "highest rank" in Cub Scouting. Here you have boys work their way through the entire program from Tiger to Webelos and they get a patch to wear on their Boy Scout uniform and knot to wear on their adult uniform to show the effort. Now we will have boys walk in during the 11th hour and voila, they get the same award. While it is very noble to pay the same day's wage to all workers whether they started at 6:00 am, 9:00 am, noon, or 3 pm, it just doesn't set well with those that showed up at 6:00 am.

                  Walking away from Cubs with a bad taste in their mouths doesn't bode well for the Cub to Boy Scout transition process which is already shaky at best.

                  Stosh

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                  • #10
                    yeah, that is one of the parts i'm not thrilled about either.

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                    • #11
                      Man, didn't Jesus tell a parable about this? In any case, our council is testing a souped-up Webelos transition, which will put crossover in November-December, rather then February-March, of the 5th grade year. There will not be time for a newly joining Fall 5th grader to earn the AOL, unless he wants to stay with the Pack for longer then the boys who were Webelos the previous year and did most of the AOL work the previous Spring/Summer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
                        Looks like this new system is going to kinda blow a hole in the idea that AOL is the "highest rank" in Cub Scouting. Here you have boys work their way through the entire program from Tiger to Webelos and they get a patch to wear on their Boy Scout uniform and knot to wear on their adult uniform to show the effort. Now we will have boys walk in during the 11th hour and voila, they get the same award. While it is very noble to pay the same day's wage to all workers whether they started at 6:00 am, 9:00 am, noon, or 3 pm, it just doesn't set well with those that showed up at 6:00 am.

                        Walking away from Cubs with a bad taste in their mouths doesn't bode well for the Cub to Boy Scout transition process which is already shaky at best.

                        "Highest rank", "work their way through", "patch to wear", "knot to wear".

                        I know those quotes may be a little out of context, but this might not be the right frame of mind. I did exit interviews with 100s of Webelos and I can't recall that rank or patches being a reason for quiting or crossing over. The word "fun" came up a lot.

                        I'm not saying I agree with the changes, I generally don't. But I can't help but feel that we adults have misunderstood priorities for the Webelos experience.

                        Barry
                        Last edited by Eagledad; 08-08-2014, 10:39 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fehler View Post
                          Man, didn't Jesus tell a parable about this? In any case, our council is testing a souped-up Webelos transition, which will put crossover in November-December, rather then February-March, of the 5th grade year. There will not be time for a newly joining Fall 5th grader to earn the AOL, unless he wants to stay with the Pack for longer then the boys who were Webelos the previous year and did most of the AOL work the previous Spring/Summer.
                          It depends on the Webelos program one is doing. I took the Webelos I boys in February, a bit early. I didn't wait for the end of the school year. Well I ran a weekly den meeting and continued it throughout the summer so that by the time Blue-Gold came around the next year, they were all AOL to start their Webelos II year. The second year we redid many of the requirements, but in at a deeper level which the boys enjoyed. Big campout that summer! then worked on Tenderfoot requirements. Back then it was possible, with SM approval to have the boys come into the troop as TF if they met the requirements. Basically this meant that they didn't have to do the 30-day wait for physical fitness testing. So that fall, they joined the troop as TF caught the Fall and Spring Camporees and Winter Klondike prior to going off to summer camp the first year. As a matter of fact, some of the boys went to summer camp as first year scouts with a FC rank.

                          While the SM was concerned that the boys would be bored with coming into scouts with all that experience, those fears were eventually relieved when all 6 of those boys Eagled, and surprisingly none of them prior to age 16. (One did move away and I don't know his age when he Eagled.)

                          So with all the work these boys did to actually earn their AOL and eventually Eagle, I think it would be a disservice to such boys to implement an 11th hour fast track that signifies that what these boys earned is really equal.

                          Next thing will be the discussions around Paper AOL awards.

                          Stosh

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
                            Now we will have boys walk in during the 11th hour and voila, they get the same award. Stosh
                            This strikes me as an Adult/Parent reaction and concern. The kids I know who have had Scouts join them at the Webelos II level are all happy their new friend got an award too.

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                            • #15
                              It appears we have strayed away from the original topic of discussion. Thank you for your responses.

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