Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

JASMs how do you use them?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • JASMs how do you use them?

    Brought back JASMs for scouts who served as SPL and were within a year of aging out. Wanted to keep that knowledge and experience in the meetings and outings, Question- how do others make use of JASMs. Looking for some input on how to keep this valuable resource. Also- we have a monthly PLC for the boys, and a monthly Uniformed Leader meeting for the SM and ASM adults (separate meetings). Looking for opinions on which meeting JASMs should attend.

  • #2
    In the 30 years of working with different troops, never encountered one. It's not common around these parts, I've never seen the patch being worn by anyone. Most Eagles still in units are wearing what I would call working POR's, TG, Instructors, PL, DC, etc.

    Stosh

    Comment


    • #3
      I treated them as adults. They did not participate in PLC's, unless the SPL asked them to be there. They did not have to be assigned to a patrol. They tented either by themselves or with another Jasm, in the adult area. They ate with the adults. The JASM's would act as troop guides and instructors. Our troop had a rule that a scout could not be a JASM unless they had attained the rank of eagle and had thier COH.

      Comment


      • #4
        We have them from time-to-time. Each is unique. Some are effectively troop guides. Some plan a specific troop activity that involves complex coordination of patrols. Some take on a task that the adults have largely ignored. Being a youth-led movement, I suggest giving your JASMs a few "opportunities" and ask them how they would like to serve.

        Usually at this age, time is scarce, so I wouldn't require meetings unless doing so would be truly productive.

        Comment


        • #5
          In my troop once you became an Eagle Scout you were allowed to be a JASM, but I broke the status quo in that instead I became the OA rep as I was just elected to serve as a Lodge Officer. Since turning 18 I have not seen any Eagles from my troop become a JASM.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's a useless position.

            Comment


            • #7
              Looking in from outside..... it sounds a little similar to what we call the Young Leader scheme in the UK. Essentially it means our Explorer Scouts (14-18) can be apprentice leaders with Beavers, Cubs or Scouts. It's been very succesfull at breading adult leaders for groups across the country. At my group we have 4 leaders who have come through the scheme.


              For us YLs are very much part of the leader team and not part of the PLC. They take part in adult leader meetings and are given increasing levels of responsibility as they get older and more experienced. It works really quite well!

              Comment


              • #8
                We have the means to develop adult leadership for the boys just aging out of Scouts. I had a scout, turn 18, take the basic SM training requirements on through Wood Badge, all before he turned 19.

                The boys pre-18 should be having fun learning. This boy had GBB training, TLT, NYLT all before he was 18. The adult training was pretty much just review. He never was a JASM. My boys all learned to lead from the back seat.

                Stosh

                Comment


                • #9
                  I use JASM to help the youth make the transition to adult. Rather then give them specific responsibility's, like I do ASM's, I give them short term project assignments that allow frequent reflections. The transition from youth to adult is a difficult one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    JASM's can be assigned to do anything you could assign an ASM to do, except that they are treated as a youth for purposes of Youth Protection, safety rules, and anything else where an adult is specifically required. They can be used for skills instructions, helping to keeping an eye on the new Scout patrol, and many other things. Our troop has only had them when there was an appropriate candidate or two, and I do not think we have ever had more than two at a time. They are usually Eagle Scouts who have previously been SPL, but there have been exceptions to this. (In another troop, long, long ago, I became JASM after my term as SPL, but I never made Eagle.)

                    If you have SM/ASM meetings, I would say yes, it would be reasonable to invite the JASM(s), as long as they understand that it might be necessary to excuse them from situations where it would be inappropriate to have youth participating. However, I would not have the JASM at the PLC's, unless the SPL specifically wants him there. Generally there should be one "adult" at the PLC's, and that's the Scoutmaster. I think the last thing a new SPL needs, when trying to run a PLC meeting, is to have his immediate predecessor there. It needs to be clear who is in charge, and that's the SPL, with the SM there as an advisor.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NJCubScouter View Post
                      JASM's can be assigned to do anything you could assign an ASM to do, except that they are treated as a youth for purposes of Youth Protection, safety rules, and anything else where an adult is specifically required. They can be used for skills instructions,
                      That's what the Instructor POR is for. JASM would just get in the way. Instead, just have the boy BE the Instructor and wear the instructor POR patch so everyone knows what he's supposed to be dong.

                      Originally posted by NJCubScouter View Post
                      helping to keeping an eye on the new Scout patrol,
                      That's what the Toop Guide POR is for. JASM would just get in the way. Instead, just have the boy BE the Troop Guide and wear the Troop Guide POR patch so everyone knows what he's supposed to be dong.

                      Originally posted by NJCubScouter View Post
                      and many other things.
                      That the boys should be doing? Just because he's another youth in the troop he would still have no business interfering with the POR responsibilities of the other boys working on their advancement. Give him a POR position, but as far as I can tell, JASM is not a POR position of any value other than an honorary position that should keep him far away as possible for any real leadership in the troop. If you wish him to have real leadership, give him a real leadership POR.

                      "can be assigned to do anything you could assign an ASM to do" I spend a lot of time keeping the adults corralled and away from the boys, working on 300' at the present time. I don't need yet another scout doing what I'm keeping my ASM's from doing. POR's are for advancement and a JASM interfering in that process wouldn't work in my troop.

                      Stosh

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
                        That's what the [Instructor/Toop Guide] POR is for. JASM would just get in the way. Instead, just have the boy BE the Instructor and wear the [instructor/Troop Guide ] POR patch so everyone knows what he's supposed to be doing.

                        Stosh
                        Or, is it the other way around? Is the proliferation of "specialty" PORs getting in the way of JASMs? Say I got a boy who steps aside as SPL to give some other youth a crack at it, then guides one month, instructs the next month, and competently does both while adding a little spit and polish to the QM the third month? Here I am swapping out patches all the time because this boy is so seasoned and skilled he fills in the gaps wherever he finds them and is almost as good a coach as the SM. Plus he's great company around the adult campfire at the end of the evening. Gee, too bad I can't use the ASM patch before the kid's old enough to fill out an adult application. I wonder what I could hang on kid's sleeve that really gets the message across about how he's serving the troop for the next few months? There's gotta be something ... he assists the SM better than I do, except he's my junior. Hmmmm ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NJCubScouter View Post
                          Generally there should be one "adult" at the PLC's, and that's the Scoutmaster. I think the last thing a new SPL needs, when trying to run a PLC meeting, is to have his immediate predecessor there. It needs to be clear who is in charge, and that's the SPL, with the SM there as an advisor.
                          One adult at the PLC; how does that work with Youth Protection Guidelines?

                          Our PLC's are open to all members youth and adult. All youth members are allowed to give input at the correct times, but not vote. Only the SM advises the PLC, but the advisers for other officers may want to follow up with youth regarding things that came up during the PLC.

                          To provide adult interaction, and expert resources, to all officers our troop has assigned ASM's and Committee Members as advisers for many officers. Here are examples:

                          Patrol Advisers (ASM that function much like Wood Badge Patrol Guides): Work Directly with Patrol Leaders
                          ASM of Junior Officers: Works directly with ASL, and his Junior officers (Historian, Librarian, Bugler, ect)
                          ASM New Scouts: Adviser to New Scout Guide and Instructor
                          ASM Den Chiefs: Adviser for Den Chiefs
                          ASM OA: Adviser for OA Rep
                          ASM High Adventure: Adviser for Big Trip Guide (Big Trip guide is youth responsible for taking point on planning and leading bi-annual High Adventure Treks)
                          ASM Leave No Trace (Master Trainer): Adviser to youth Leave no Trace Trainer
                          ASM Eagle Coach: Advises scouts going through Eagle process (often assisted by Eagle Scout JASM)
                          Chaplain: Serves as adviser for the Chaplain's Aide
                          Committee Equipment manager: Serves as adviser to Quartermaster
                          Committee Communications Chair: Partners with Treasurer to serves as adviser to Scribe
                          Committee members (with web skills): Serves as adviser to Webmaster

                          Don't get the wrong idea, we're 100% youth ran; the adults are resources, mentors for the officers in question; and don't step in unless there's a safety issue. Of course these advisers handle SMC's for office, do held the officer evaluate progress, and set goals. With large troops the SM can't do all of this, and often doesn't have the correct skill set for every officer.

                          Of course the SPL's immediate predecessor should be at PLC's, unless he's aged out he should hold another key POR. Why would this confuse who is in charge, there's only one SPL?

                          Neither Eagle, nor SPL, are prerequisites for JASM. The JASM position is designed to assist in the transition from youth the adult membership.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by qwazse View Post

                            Or, is it the other way around? Is the proliferation of "specialty" PORs getting in the way of JASMs? Say I got a boy who steps aside as SPL to give some other youth a crack at it, then guides one month, instructs the next month, and competently does both while adding a little spit and polish to the QM the third month? Here I am swapping out patches all the time because this boy is so seasoned and skilled he fills in the gaps wherever he finds them and is almost as good a coach as the SM. Plus he's great company around the adult campfire at the end of the evening. Gee, too bad I can't use the ASM patch before the kid's old enough to fill out an adult application. I wonder what I could hang on kid's sleeve that really gets the message across about how he's serving the troop for the next few months? There's gotta be something ... he assists the SM better than I do, except he's my junior. Hmmmm ...
                            For advancement I don't have a problem with a boy doing multiple POR work for credit. What you suggest is perfectly okay in my book. But what I would find difficult to accept is Boy A gets the POR patch and responsibility for Troop Guide. He falters, hems and haws, doesn't do his work, but Boy B: JASM steps in to "mentor" him and in the meantime does the TG work because it has to get done. Then after 6 months, Boy A gets credit for his POR. As SM I would have advised my ASM to let the Boy A stumble and struggle a bit to see if he could figure it out on his own. A JASM is a boy so in keeping with Boy Run, JASM can pretty much do what he wants to interfere. I would rather have a boy struggle with a POR for 6 months and get credit than slide on through because someone else did the heavy lifting and wouldn't let him "fail". A SM can pull an ASM back out of the situation, but if the troop is boy run, the JASM can't be told what he can or can't do and if he wishes to start dictating to the SPL, PL's or other troop officers because he outranks them, that's something I'm never going to allow. It's bad enough keeping the adults from doing that.

                            And as far as what you are describing qwazse, I have boys with no POR patches doing that sort of thing all the time. They have been the confident boys that do the work and don't worry about the patch.

                            Stosh
                            Last edited by jblake47; 07-14-2014, 02:45 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You guys are making this too hard. The objective is scout growth and the challenge for the troop is to keep the scout challenged at his age and maturity. If you do that, you will end up with a lot of scouts like quazse describes. Don't let titles, rank or stature get in the way of their growth and you will have several scouts who perform better than the ASMs and even the SM. Call the scout whatever you think he deserves, but allow him to keep learning and growing. From my own experience it is hard to step back and let a scout do what are normally my SM duties, but it is inevitable for a troop that keeps maturing. Some scouts are just better at scouting than we are.

                              ​Barry

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X