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  • #16
    If you have a speaker or master of ceremonies (ie Cubmaster) facing an audience and that location is considered the front of the room, then the flag needs to end up on the speaker's (Cubmaster's) right, the audience's left. In the typical flag ceremony, the flags are carried with pride from the back of the room. As it is being carried, think of the flag as if it is facing the speaker at that point - if it's carried in a side-by-side line (and not in front of other flags), then it will be on the right of all the other flags (the speaker's left). At the front of the room, the person carrying the flag will cross over to the speaker's right to the post and should turn to face the audience before posting - think of the flag at that point turning around and facing the audience - now the flag is "to it's own right" - as if it's addressing the audience.

    The question though is does it cross over in front of the other flags or behind the other flags. The answer is it crosses over in front of the other flags (between the speaker and the flags) rather than behind the other flags (between the audience and the other flags). The flag always takes the superior position in regards to other flags and in this case, the flag's superior position, until the flag bearer faces the audience with the flag at the post, is always on front of the other flags.

    There is, however, protocol to post the flag to the left of the speaker, and that would be if the speaker is not on a stage - this really is no longer done but the protocol is still out there as an option but I wouldn't bother with it now as it's generally accepted that the flag get's posted to the speaker's right regardless of staging.


    When you retrieve the flag, The US Flag should be picked up first and should start the line up - no crossover needed because the flag is already presumed to be facing the direction it will travel - the rest of the flags come in behind it or beside it to the left - it is always retrieved off a stage first because it should always be in front of the other flags - if it is retrieved after the other flags are lined up then it is behind those flags for a brief time.


    As for a symmetrical 51 star flag - 3 rows of nine interspersed with 3 rows of 8

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MattR View Post
      I had to look this one up (the US flag can fly below or to left of a religious flag). This is what I found in the US Code (title 4, chapter 1, section 7, (c)). "No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy." Only at sea, only by the navy, only during services (...). Don't you think this goes back to some tradition at sea on tall ships?
      The tradition dates back to at least the 1600's - the "church flag" was considered neutral and when it was flown above a National ensign on a ship at sea (and even in port, it's still "at sea") it designated that the ship was now neutral, even if it was flying the ensign of one's enemy (because presumably, though you may have spoken different languages and came from different countries, you still had the same God). It was flown during services or if the vessel was on a "divine" mission such as delivering bodies of sailors killed in battle to land for burial.

      Something else interesting about naval flag displays - if a flag is flown from a pole/mast/gaffe mounted to the stern of a boat, it is in the place of honor for the boat - and event though other flags may be displayed on higher parts of the boat, the flag flying in the stern is the "highest" flag on the boat - which is why you'll often see US ensigns flown from a stern pole that is lower than a ships flag or other flag on a boat. If there is a stern pole with no flag on it when there normally would be, chances are that a flag of another country is also being displayed and since flags from countries fly at the same level as the US flag, they're likely both being flown from poles mounted higher on the boat.

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      • #18
        § 7. Position and Manner of Display. The flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be either on the marching right; that is, the flag’s own right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that line.

        When there are more than one other flag, the US Flag is out front and center from the other flags.

        § 9. Conduct During Hoisting, Lowering or Passing of Flag.
        During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passingin a parade or in review, all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with the right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.

        Sounds like the scout salute is not to be used.

        If one were to actually read and teach the US Flag Code, most people would be totally amazed as to how disrespectful we have become to the symbol of our nation.

        Watch the football games where they drag the flag out over the whole field? Might as well lay it on the ground. Shaking it to make it look like it's flying "free" is yet another joke.

        Stosh


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        • #19
          Wikipedia has a decent 51-star flag, 3 rows of 9 (27) and 3 rows of 8 (24): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51st_state. Looks more "normal" than some of the prior flag designs. Heck, I cringe at the boxy 48-star flag when I see it pop up in old pictures/movies, it looks so "unnatural".

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          • #20
            Fehler, c'mon, let's take the opportunity to slim down a little. I mean, who is going to miss RI anyway? It's already practically nonexistent, pretending to be a STATE already...more like a Texas county or something. They'll be fine partitioned between their neighbors. H'mm might be time to clean up a few other state lines as well...TN versus GA for example, or those slivers of land between VA and PA?

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            • #21
              I'm thinking with the current bureaucratic necessities of the government, we ought to take the biggies like Alaska, Texas and California and split them up sufficiently to make a nice symmetrical flag. The people of Illinois wouldn't mind dumping Chicago. They could maybe join up with Milwaukee that Wisconsin wants to get rid of. American Samoa, Wake, Guam and Puerto Rico could all jump in to help out too. So what about Washington D.C.? Well if most Americans got their way, that chunk of change could go off and be their own country and no one would feel the least bit bad about it.

              Stosh

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              • #22
                Also, under US Flag Code and other codes governing uniforms, the Boy Scouts of America uniform is designated as an official uniform (Girl Scouts is not, BTW). However, it doesn't refer to a specific BSA uniform, just the BSA uniform.

                There's always a debate about Class Bs. My interpretation is, whatever is designated as the uniform by the BSA Unit running the event, is the uniform.

                If we specify "Class B" for the event, than anyone in Class B is "in uniform" and salutes. At a normal meeting, where "Class A" is designated, then anyone in Class B is NOT "in uniform" and places hand over the heart.

                Where it gets strange is Class B events where someone is in Class A and we designate them as more "in uniform" and puts them in the color guard, while technically, they are out of Class B.

                Congress has recognized the BSA uniforming without specifying what it is. As long as we apply our rules consistently, I believe we are free to interpret that as long as we stay within BSA policies. Since BSA calls it an Activity Shirt, I always instruct, "Wear your Activity Shirt (Class B)" never "wear your Class B" since Class B is not an official BSA term.

                My council uses Class A/B all the time in emails and people have no clue what I mean when I say Activity Shirt/Field Uniform.

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                • #23
                  Where does B.S.A. designate the Activity Uniform? I can only find reference to "the uniform."

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                  • #24
                    Aw, you guys are back to being serious again. Shucks!

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                    • #25
                      You're a moderator, packsaddle, wield your power and make some rules. Here's one: If your state is so small that you have to write your name and capitol out in the ocean, you must combine your state with one that has an NFL team. That's a lot more fair than just picking on New Hampshire.

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                      • #26
                        Good suggestions, and I like that reminder about NH. Those guys continue to amaze me. Like I used to kid Moosetracker (is she watching now?), they can't even decide between "Live Free" or "Die". DUH!!!!!

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