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  • Updated Scouting Safely Information

    http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...andSafety.aspx

    Would suggest review of the Guide to Safe Scouting, particularly a re-written medical section and a couple of new mid-level risk assessment tools / checklists in the appendix.

    The home page has a newsletter for summer 2014 but the link may have issues at the moment. Also a new save the date for next Feb for those who would like to progress your councils ERM and join us at SeaBase.

    Finally, there are still scholarships available for ERM committee members to join us at PTC this August.

    Richard

  • #2
    You might want to put a direct link or place it more prominently on that page.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think its placement on the page speaks volumes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Richard, maybe I did not understand something,

        "• Records are NOT to be digitized, scanned, sent by email, or stored
        electronically by unit leaders."

        Well I did a quick scan and I think it is ridiculous that we cannot scan or email medical forms. Parents scan and send them in, we forward to or medical officer, and print off a copy for the Troop notebook and an archival copy. Our medical officer always has a backup copy. Parents usually prefer to keep the original.

        On trips we bring the notebook as well as a flash drive of the boys going. On more than one occasion a hurt boy was not with the medical form and only the Scoutmaster's thumbdrive was available--in fact at one Hospital we were given kudos for being prepared.

        Comment


        • #5
          So what don't you understand about not digitizing the information? Pretty clear that now is not the time to do this, and we do explain it in some detail in the livestream video found on the AHMR landing page. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...fety/ahmr.aspx

          Comment


          • #6
            Sounds like a HIPAA issue around security, etc. This is one of the challenges, for example, for electronic medial records in general:
            Technical Safeguards
            • Access Control. A covered entity must implement technical policies and procedures that allow only authorized persons to access electronic protected health information (e-PHI).24
              Audit Controls. A covered entity must implement hardware, software, and/or procedural mechanisms to record and examine access and other activity in information systems that contain or use e-PHI.25
              Integrity Controls. A covered entity must implement policies and procedures to ensure that e-PHI is not improperly altered or destroyed. Electronic measures must be put in place to confirm that e-PHI has not been improperly altered or destroyed.26
              Transmission Security. A covered entity must implement technical security measures that guard against unauthorized access to e-PHI that is being transmitted over an electronic network.27

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RichardB View Post
              So what don't you understand about not digitizing the information? Pretty clear that now is not the time to do this, and we do explain it in some detail in the livestream video found on the AHMR landing page. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...fety/ahmr.aspx
              He understand the rule. The problem is the rule is asinine. There should be some protocol, such as requiring encryption, and not allowing files to be emailed, but other than that, it's silly. He gives a valid reason for why we should allow it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                I think its placement on the page speaks volumes.
                Sorry, Richard, scouting.org is such a jungle as to be utterly useless for transmitting any information of any import. What you need is 3 million postage stamps.

                Originally posted by perdidochas View Post
                He understand the rule. The problem is the rule is asinine. There should be some protocol, such as requiring encryption, and not allowing files to be emailed, but other than that, it's silly. He gives a valid reason for why we should allow it.
                Given the wide range of yokels I've encountered in Scouting, I think it's a perfectly sensible rule. How many troop computers are sitting connected 24/7 with an install of Norton that hasn't been updated in 5 years? How many Scouters are out there still running Windows XP with 200 medical forms sitting on their HD? How many lose their thumb drive every 4 months? How many cloudnuts are letting Google read the medical history of every boy who goes through their unit because paper is, like, so 20th century?
                If we've learned anything in the past 6 months it's that there's no such thing as encrypted, just encrypted til someone decides to crack it and/or until you click "I agree."

                The valid reason doesn't rev my engine: How far could the paper copies possibly have been from the thumb drive?
                Last edited by Scouter99; 05-07-2014, 12:12 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post

                  Given the wide range of yokels I've encountered in Scouting, I think it's a perfectly sensible rule. How many troop computers are sitting connected 24/7 with an install of Norton that hasn't been updated in 5 years? How many Scouters are out there still running Windows XP with 200 medical forms sitting on their HD? How many lose their thumb drive every 4 months? How many cloudnuts are letting Google read the medical history of every boy who goes through their unit because paper is, like, so 20th century?
                  If we've learned anything in the past 6 months it's that there's no such thing as encrypted, just encrypted til someone decides to crack it and/or until you click "I agree."

                  The valid reason doesn't rev my engine: How far could the paper copies possibly have been from the thumb drive?
                  Well speaking as an yokel, ;P , (ye-haw) how effective is paper records control for units--how many times has the 'paper notebook' been misplaced or is insecure? I just don't think this rule has been real world tested. Even without the electronic records we have had times when the medical facility requested a fax--how secure is that?

                  BTW we have a pretty organized troop with a 'base' committee medical officer who has to be reachable at all times when there is a Troop away activity. We want a backup upon backup upon backup. Our focus is on getting the scout medical attention as quickly as possible-not on being penalized because the adults taking the boy to the emergency room forgot the 5 pound notebook...

                  Hey look, I'm not sniping just for fun. I think RichardB wants to do the right thing and I am open to some solutions. If part of the reason is a BSA CYA exercise why not just have a disclaimer/release form for parents? Maybe BSA can sell some approved encrypted dongle thingie--they are pushing electronics hard in Boys Life and Scouter--why not find a modern solution than a lawyered up prohibition??

                  (and as for the GSS placement--that is really a website design issue. I am pretty dumb--I'd just make a permanent link (with latest edition date) more prominent.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post
                    Sorry, Richard, scouting.org is such a jungle as to be utterly useless for transmitting any information of any import. What you need is 3 million postage stamps.
                    Given the wide range of yokels I've encountered in Scouting, I think it's a perfectly sensible rule. How many troop computers are sitting connected 24/7 with an install of Norton that hasn't been updated in 5 years? How many Scouters are out there still running Windows XP with 200 medical forms sitting on their HD? How many lose their thumb drive every 4 months? How many cloudnuts are letting Google read the medical history of every boy who goes through their unit because paper is, like, so 20th century?
                    If we've learned anything in the past 6 months it's that there's no such thing as encrypted, just encrypted til someone decides to crack it and/or until you click "I agree."
                    The valid reason doesn't rev my engine: How far could the paper copies possibly have been from the thumb drive?
                    How secure are paper copies? I just don't see that thumb drive scans of the medical forms being that much more insecure than the paper copies. I do agree that the cloud would be an unacceptable place for the medical forms, but I doubt very much that google can easily read scanned pdfs (i.e. the kinds that are basically images, rather than text files).

                    From what I read in RichardB's links, I think national is working on a cloud solution for storage of med forms.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As a cloud nut (and a guy who makes a living thanks to said cloud), you CAN encrypt and store files in the cloud with the same degree of safety. I and my company use Box, with encryption, for a variety of files. The accounting firm that I use leverages Dropbox in the same way. Neither is part of Google, so I am not concerned with Google searching those files like they might with Google Drive.

                      Again though, it sounds to me like the BSA is worried about HIPAA issues around having scanned medical files. Personally, I would rather have a thumb drive of the entire Troop, so that I don't have to go through the notebook when I am taking 10 backpacking instead of 50 camping. I would like to see the BSA set some guidelines for the forms to make them easier to manage electronically, especially for larger troops. Our binder is now two binders, and they tend to stay in my truck on campouts in case of emegencies.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        One quick note is in order here. Whatever concerns BSA. or we, may have about security of medical data one concern we don't have is HIPAA. We are not a covered entity under HIPAA and so we are not governed by any of their regulations.

                        HIPAA is widely misunderstood even by people who are governed by it, but it is important to understand at least whether or not you're even a part of it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just a logistics question for those of you that use thumb drives. What do you use to read them in the field if you have an issue and if you have to take a scout to a medical facility do you just turn over the entire drive? I'm especially curious for those of you taking 50 kids into the woods.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I gather that a directive directive has been issued by BSA Corporate. I even have some idea that it, at least in part, covers "digitizing the information." But I don;t get there from the OP or the link in the OP or the link in post 5.

                            How about a link to the actual decree?

                            Meanwhile, I will use Googlefu to try to find it.

                            Oh, by the way, "unit leader" as used by BSA means, as to troops, the Scoutmaster. In the troop I work with no, one of the dads keeps the medical records.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, that wasn't so tough I wasn't looking closely enough.


                              http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...lformfaqs.aspx
                              "Following are some of the best practices for using and storing the records:
                              • The Annual Health and Medical Record is secured to maintain the confidentiality of the information, yet at the same time, the forms should be accessible by adult leaders in an emergency. The following guidance will assist leaders in achieving this goal:
                                • Leaders are encouraged to maintain the original AHMR forms in a safe location in a binder or file that protects the documents entrusted to the unit leader.
                                • The AHMR should be taken on all activities.
                                • Designate a leader to keep the files containing the AHMR up to date. This may include reminding participants to update the AHMR annually or as needed.
                                • Designate a leader as the point of contact with event or camp health officers. If needed, the leader should arrange to have the AHMR returned to him or her at the end of the event, if allowed by the state.
                                • The unit leader (or his or her designee) is responsible for destroying or returning to the participant (or parent and/or guardian) the AHMR documents when the participant leaves the unit or when the documents become outdated.
                              • Records are NOT to be digitized, scanned, sent by email, or stored electronically by unit leaders.
                              • To streamline a summer or winter camp check-in, records of all participants are reviewed to make sure they are up to date, completed, and signed before leaving for camp. Be sure to check with the camp for any additional information that may be needed. For example, specific immunization records may be required in some states."
                              Note that it is a "best practice" That is very clear - a suggestion. I am sure BSA Corporate knows how to word directives when they wish to, such as the directive that individual testing is required for all merit badges.

                              MORE:

                              "Q. Can I keep a record of my Annual Health and Medical Record somewhere at my council's office or online?
                              A. No. Please don't digitize!
                              Districts and councils are discouraged from keeping any medical records, whether digital or paper, unless required by local or state ordinances. However, the electronic version of the Annual Health and Medical Record is intended to be filled out and saved by individual Scouts and Scouters. The electronic version of the Annual Health and Medical Record should not be transmitted via email or stored electronically by units, districts, or councils. Units are encouraged to keep paper copies of their participants' Annual Health and Medical Records in a confidential medical file for quick access in an emergency and to be prepared for all adventures."
                              Last edited by TAHAWK; 05-07-2014, 07:13 PM.

                              Comment

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