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  • #31
    Originally posted by perdidochas View Post
    It was his son, not another scout.....
    Fortunatly a parent still has the right to a bit of one-on-one contact when needed. We have tried very hard to limit the dyes, hard to do when the boys prefer the sweet and sour candies over chocolate. Trader Joes does not carry any artificial food cooling in their stores. The dang teachers at school pass out Jolly Ranchers but they can't eat them at school because of the choking hazard. The bus ride home is a much better place for that to happen.

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    • #32
      Personally, I don't like the idea of soda on camping trips. However, as I have mentioned before, the adults in my troop camp as the Duct Tape Patrol and set the example for the Scout patrols. Our menus are based on the food plate and lack all sodas.

      The only time this becomes an issue is when one Scouter brings her own soda. The justification is that some of us drink our own coffee. Whatevs...

      As the Scoutmaster, I don't ban it but I don't suggest it either...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
        And as to the last line of the quote: NO, if done properly, there is no reason for any adult leaders to be there.
        Ah, what? With the the tour plans and insurance stuff that needs to be filled out, filed and kept on hand, by all means an adult has to be there...two actually. And they need to have the training, etc., as required for the event. I get the premise: That adults should be seen and not heard except when needed.

        As to the SPL and his role, he most certainly can be the go to person without PLs. We certainly want the PLs managing their Patrols, but there will be situations when the SPL needs to step in and manage. We agree that PLs manage their Patrols and the SPL manages the PLs, but the SPL also manages other positions too, either directly or by extension through the ASPLs.


        Originally posted by perdidochas View Post
        It was his son, not another scout.....
        It was a joke. But in our troop we never had one-on-one contact. In fact, we have a rule amng the parents that you never handle your own son's issues. There are no "dads" in camp, only Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones. If Mr. Johnson's son is acting up, Messrs Smith and Jones handle it. Others may do different but this has worked for us.

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        • #34
          The SPL should run the PLC. The PLC "runs the troop" and "running the troop" should mostly consist of coordinating between Patrols. Which are run by the PLs. I'm partial to the idea of an ASPL being the PLs primary "coach" for helping them learn their job.

          That's the ideal anyway.

          Usually it falls short, maybe by a little, maybe by a lot, depending. But the more we can push things in that direction, the better the results.

          As to "Rules", I'm not partial to them. Sure, there need to be some, but the fewer arbitrary "Adults said..." rules, the better. We struggle with this of course, as our well-intentioned parents want rules. (Funny thing about rules though, they never solve the problem. Possibly someone following the rules can solve a problem, but the rules never solve anything by merely existing.. but that's another subject). Especially with Scout-aged young men, it's kind of important for them to understand "why" more than "what." If we're going to "prepare them to make good ethical and moral choices" in their lifetimes, we're going to need to let them practice actually making choices.

          How are we helping them to make good choices if we're not only making the choices for them, but making choices they don't actually like?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mozartbrau View Post
            Ah, what? With the the tour plans and insurance stuff that needs to be filled out, filed and kept on hand, by all means an adult has to be there...two actually. And they need to have the training, etc., as required for the event. I get the premise: That adults should be seen and not heard except when needed.

            As to the SPL and his role, he most certainly can be the go to person without PLs. We certainly want the PLs managing their Patrols, but there will be situations when the SPL needs to step in and manage. We agree that PLs manage their Patrols and the SPL manages the PLs, but the SPL also manages other positions too, either directly or by extension through the ASPLs.



            It was a joke. But in our troop we never had one-on-one contact. In fact, we have a rule amng the parents that you never handle your own son's issues. There are no "dads" in camp, only Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones. If Mr. Johnson's son is acting up, Messrs Smith and Jones handle it. Others may do different but this has worked for us.
            For us it depends on the type of issue. If it's a scouting issue, Dads stay away. If it's a behavior issue, the Dad's deal with their own sons.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by mozartbrau View Post
              It was a joke. But in our troop we never had one-on-one contact. In fact, we have a rule amng the parents that you never handle your own son's issues. There are no "dads" in camp, only Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones. If Mr. Johnson's son is acting up, Messrs Smith and Jones handle it. Others may do different but this has worked for us.
              I like that and think that is how it should run. That would take a lot of trust among the Dads however. Unfortunately at best our "troop" would be considered Webelos III, and in my opinion it is more like Tiger Cubs 6.

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              • #37
                I have to say this isn't the parents problem, he/she talked to the PL and wasn't satisfied. In my opinion this is the parent deciding what the scouts could have and not liking the response they received. Boy scouts is supposed to be a boy run program. Not boy run if we like their decisions and if we don't we decided.

                If you don't want your son to drink the soda tell him he can't have it. If he disobeys you punish him. This shows he can resist peer pressure, what happened when he is in college and his friends/frat brothers tell him go get a girl drunk and rape her? Are you going be their and tell him NO? Or will he have to make that decision himself? That is the whole point of scouting to mature boys into men. You hovering over them picking apart their decision and alienating your son isn't the point of the BSA. Daddy isn't always going to be around to protect little Jimmy. Not to mention since YOU a parent think its "bad" you are going to punish all the scouts? This isn't your local soccer club its not daddy's job to buy the snacks. If that is what the scouts want good that fine. They also have healthy options, get off your high horse, stop thinking your better then the scouts since your older and your "experienced".

                This topic reminds me of our districts 2013 Klondike Derby. A troop sponsor it it every year, and last year the scouts of the troop decided to make it a zombie theme. Basically the same thing, different names a few different activities and different introductions. Every scout I talked got from every troop liked it. Who complained about it? The adult leaders/volunteers this year a troop didn't run it two district adults did and it was a major let down. It went back to the boring same thing every year. All because the adults didn't like it.

                I mean no offense to you dedkad, and if I come of harsh I apologize. However, I have to deal with annoying parents every week, I don't need the parents trying to tell me what to do. I don't see a single thing wrong with their menu as long as they aren't trying to get the cooking merit badge. Lighten up and remember when you were kids (I have my doubts about some of you maybe you were just born old :P) and remember Patrol Run nor parent run. Even if their menu was extremely disgusting no work aka raw roman noodles every meal then fine IF they get it approve. Maybe next time they will plan a better meal maybe not, but that is the scouts choice not yours.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by mozartbrau View Post
                  So sorry for the tangent, but I found this funny. A few years ago we went to a Council summer camp. One of our boys wanted coffee but was told he could not have any because of the caffeine. Later I took a trip to the trading post and you'll never guess what they sold there. Monster, Red Bull, Mountain Dew, etc. I asked the camp director about the logic of denying coffee to Scouts but allowing them to buys stuff with 3-4x the amount of caffeine of coffee. His reply? The "visual" of a Scout drinking coffee was worse than that of one drinking Red Bull or Monster. Never went back to that camp. The result was a troop policy where parents must give permission for any such drinks to be allowed for their Scout during travel or camp. Can you imagine an ADHD kid on Monster and Skittles?
                  At Webelos resident camp one of our Webelos asked if he could have coffee. We questioned him if he ever had if before. He said he drinks it everyday at home. He ended up drinking one cup of coffee (black) every morning with breakfast.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by jblake47 View Post

                    One of the things I have learned from the forums, not just this one, is that what is presented and what is absorbed isn't always the same thing. What works for one may not work for another, but it might offer a "try" that could be attempted to see if it helps in their situations. I try to keep my comments from being taken personally by others by using the third person pronouns as much as possible and stay clear of the second person pronouns which offer a harsher tone.

                    I don't have a problem with the ways others do things in their troops, it seems to be working for them. However, when one finds themselves in a difficult situation any suggestions from others, either good or bad, seems to allow for some alternatives to the problems they are facing. I know and expect a lot of my comments to be tossed into the trash can, but someone out there may find them helpful. One of the things that amaze me is that a lot of the problems plaguing others have never come up in my units. Either I'm doing something right or I'm really lucky.

                    I don't mind the occasional hijack, especially in the area of courtesy on the forum, no apology necessary.

                    Stosh
                    What I have learned from the forums is that there is usually at least two different approached to every problem on running a Troop or Patrol and often both of them work depending on the circumstances. It gives me a lot of "on the other hands" when helping my Scoutmaster and presents the illusion that have wisdom when I am just recycling other people's opinions. I have found it pretty useful.I also agree that the limitations of the internet means that things do not always come out right--it is easy to offend people.

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                    • #40
                      Scouter is so much fun!

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                      • #41
                        I don't really care what the boys want to eat on camping trips. I will review and offer feedback with the PL's and SPL.

                        Bottom line is cost. you have 8 boys in a patrol, they drink how much soda each? So instead of that $1 Koolaid packet your adding $5 -$10 per meal for soda.

                        Had a patrol that was going to make steaks one outing, they did not adjust the food cost......They ended up with hamburger steaks as I recall.

                        The biggie is caffeine tends to dehydrate as well.

                        BTW the PLC did ban monsters/energy drinks after a couple of lads got sick from over consumption.

                        Had a scout show up with those 5 hour energy shots........I impounded them and gave them to mom when we returned.....


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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by mozartbrau View Post
                          Ah, what? With the the tour plans and insurance stuff that needs to be filled out, filed and kept on hand, by all means an adult has to be there...two actually. And they need to have the training, etc., as required for the event. I get the premise: That adults should be seen and not heard except when needed.
                          That's what the Scribe is for. If he has to run around at the last minute collecting statutory signatures, so be it, it is part of his POR responsibilities. An adult should never do what a scout is capable of doing. Unless one doesn't trust the scout to do his job and that's a whole different discussion. I had a 13 year old ADD boy handle all the popcorn sales one year. He couldn't sign for the popcorn when it was delivered, so his mom did. He handled everything else. It was the best popcorn sale event ever for the troop.

                          I usually attend the activities as SM because BSA says I have to. With properly trained boys, there is really no other "need" for me to be there.

                          Originally posted by mozartbrau View Post
                          As to the SPL and his role, he most certainly can be the go to person without PLs. We certainly want the PLs managing their Patrols, but there will be situations when the SPL needs to step in and manage. We agree that PLs manage their Patrols and the SPL manages the PLs, but the SPL also manages other positions too, either directly or by extension through the ASPLs.
                          Every time the SPL "steps in the manage" they are taking away any trust, authority and opportunity to lead from the PL. The boys selected/elected a PL to run their patrol, not the SPL. If the SPL would like to mentor the PL, that's okay in my book, but taking over doesn't wash with the program. I like your word "manage" too, it shows that management is more important than leadership in that situation. The task at hand is more important than the people. I don't worry about tasks, things get done, people are more important than things.

                          As far as managing other positions as well, that means he's usurping the leadership out of all the POR's. Pass out patches and then tell the SPL he runs the troop. The rest of the boys all get a free ride. Not in my book. Under that scenario, the only thing the SPL is going to do is possibly manage to survive for his tenured 6 months.

                          Originally posted by mozartbrau View Post
                          It was a joke. But in our troop we never had one-on-one contact. In fact, we have a rule amng the parents that you never handle your own son's issues. There are no "dads" in camp, only Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones. If Mr. Johnson's son is acting up, Messrs Smith and Jones handle it. Others may do different but this has worked for us.
                          Same for my troops.

                          Stosh

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                          • #43
                            For the most part, we're primarily water. That said, we will do OJ and milk for breakfast, but we made this part of the adult buy-list when 10 gallons of each started showing up at campouts. Proper portioning in our food-buying is a constant battle we're trying to a handle on. Scouts (but most likely the accompanying parent) seem to make sure there's enough for everyone to have 3rds!

                            We normally don't do bug juice, but do provide hot chocolate when weather dictates. We do have an adult or 2 who pack their own in lieu of coffee, but most prefer to do as the kids do - with the exception of coffee, of course!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by dedkad View Post
                              But soda really has no redeeming qualities unless you're looking for a caffeine fix, so I just don't see allowing soda as good policy.
                              Some people (myself included) like the bubbles and find that something carbonated quenches thirst better than something non-carbonated. Personally I've taken to seltzer but that, like soda, can be hard to lug around. Might be something that the trading post could stock though.

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