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  • Trail Life.........

    So I got a phone call from a scouter who is now involved with trail life last night. It was a recruiting call....

    Very enlightening.

    I heard he left and was disappointed in him and I believed he left because of the homosexual youth issue. Well in an hour conversation last night his issue is with the BSA and how top heavy and unresponsive it has become. He cited our scout execs $300K a year salary and the cost of maintaining summer camps. then our dysfunctional district and how we have become the dumping ground for DE's they want to force to quit.

    He has lost faith in the BSA paid leadership's ability to look out for the boys best interest. He left very specifically over the Summit Cost and the membership fee increase.

    While I still view the Trail Life crew just as I view the American Heritage group, as a bunch of bible thumping hypocrites, speaking with him was good.

    I now understand why he left and agree with most of his points.


    I disagree with the initial reason the organization was created and may never be able to get passed it.

    It was good speaking with him again.

  • #2
    I agree on some of those issues. Not sure about the complaint about summer camps--they are an important part of the program, and aren't cheap. Fee increases happen. Can't avoid it. I just wish that the paid professionals were more responsive to the volunteers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yep. It's always better to disagree amicably and pray that something good comes of it.

      So did you ask him ... How much are TL's execs paid? Is there a salary cap? What is the per-person cost of membership? Is there a long term cap on that? Do they have a plan for endowments? If someone donates land, who decides what will be done with it?

      Just saying my suspicion is that the financial stuff is just a smoke-screen. Centuries ago, the Sultan of Egypt applied a differential tax on Christians vs. Muslims. Christians claim difference enticed some folks who were "on the fence" to convert to Islam. But if you asked the converts, I'd bet they'd say something like "Muslims practice what they preached" - the Church was not winning friends in the 6th-9th centuries. But Copts persisted and learned to live leaner as second class citizens, and soon the Sultanate became so bloated that it had to exact taxes from everyone.

      I sincerely hope the TL-ers do well. But, I have no reason to believe that their financial burden will be any different than the BSA's.

      Comment


      • #4

        Next time you speak, ask him how much TL budgets to maintain their local camps.


        Right.

        Comment


        • #5
          My councils scout camps are expensive... I know some councils let troops camp for free. Not mine a night in the camp with the troop will cost $80 for a tent site.

          I am one that thinks maybe it is time for the scout owned camps should go away. It would end the merit badge frenzy and poor quality that folks complain about.

          Comment


          • dedkad
            dedkad commented
            Editing a comment
            It costs our pack $200 to $300 a night to camp at the council camp. However, the scout camps have their benefits, like a shooting range.

        • #6
          from his description of the org.....Most of the folks are volunteers.

          Comment


          • #7
            A few questions, maybe this isn't the right place. How does a camp drive MB frenzies? I mean summer camp maybe, but a camp site? What are bible thumpers and why are they hypocrites? Just trying to understand, your world seems very different from ours. Barry

            Comment


            • Basementdweller
              Basementdweller commented
              Editing a comment
              Well Barry we never go to a council owned camp because they are too expensive for us to use as a unit on the weekend. So for two nights in one of their campsite is $160.

              Summer camps.......come on you have read the complaints about the boys not actually having fun and the merit badges have a price tag associated with each one. The parental expectation for the boys to come home with a bunch completed.


              So TL splits with the BSA over the admission of openly gay youth as members....Then recants on that after they split, guess they don't have the BSA's deep pockets to fight the inevitable law suits.


              the grass is greener or is it.

            • Rick_in_CA
              Rick_in_CA commented
              Editing a comment
              Because I don't believe the split was ever really about gays. It was about religious pluralism.

          • #8
            Interesting....
            http://godfatherpolitics.com/12479/t...so-admit-gays/

            Comment


            • #9
              One of the reasons the scout camps are so expensive is because they keep increasing infrastructure which is expensive to begin with and then the maintenance costs. Too many are trying to be mini-resorts which happen to do some scout stuff. Focus should be on the woods and camping.

              Comment


              • Eagle92
                Eagle92 commented
                Editing a comment
                Not only states, but national BSA is requiring infrastructure improvements. check out this link and read some of the files :
                http://www.scouting.org/ncap.aspx

                Camps are being judged on infrastructure. I got some issues with that.

              • JoeBob
                JoeBob commented
                Editing a comment
                I have issues, too.

                Isn't the main definition of 'camping' to get away from 'infrastructure'?

              • Hal_Crawford
                Hal_Crawford commented
                Editing a comment
                Local authorities insisted on latrine upgrades at our council camp over ground water concerns. A lot of improvements are health and safety related.

            • #10
              I understand regulatory requirements.


              But for a Troop camping weekend.....A outhouse is nice and about 50 acres of woods with a pond on it.

              That is it. Don't need a swimming pool, dining hall.....fancy water treatment or waste disposal facility.


              The BSA has lost its way in this regard. More sometimes is just more and not better.


              Just like that White Elephant in West Virginia that cost us how much and isn't even finished yet???????

              Comment


              • #11
                Im sure the grass IS alot greener on the other side....for now. Then what happens when TL gets a case of the same diseases that plague BSA now? 'course, it took 100 years to get here so maybe the new TL-fers are just happy to kick the can down the road for now

                Comment


                • #12
                  As a Jew married to a Christian, I am sure I have a different perspective than most Christians here. Living in the south I am reminded daily that I live in the bible belt. Groups like Trail Life and AHG that are "christian based" don't make sense to me. We live in a multi-cultural society and it is important that our boys are brought up in an inclusive environment with people that are actually different from them. I have not had any complaints from anyone in our unit about our interfaith services because it is a learning experience for them.

                  I we lock ourselves in a room with only people like us that believe in the same things, the boys will be in a big shock when they grow into young men to be our leaders.

                  Comment


                  • mashmaster
                    mashmaster commented
                    Editing a comment
                    How is GSA fighting for it's life? I'm just not aware of that. My daughter is a girl scout and the program seems to be going quite strong in our area. I don't see it as a conservative or a liberal thing. I think faith is important, I just think that we should be receptive to all faiths.

                  • Rick_in_CA
                    Rick_in_CA commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The problem is that for many conservatives (not all) the phrase "faith is important" actually means "faith that looks like mine is important, the rest can pound sand".

                  • scoutergipper
                    scoutergipper commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Girl Scout councils across the country are selling off their camps and membership has dropped precipitously in many areas.

                • #13
                  I donno, BD, sounds like your chance to get in early and make the big bucks down the line.

                  Comment


                  • Basementdweller
                    Basementdweller commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Bout choked on my coffee.

                    Just like AHG the way the organization was created just doesn't sit well with me.


                    And in reflecting on the conversation I had with the fellow the other night, a lot of things don't give me the warm and fuzzy feeling..

                    I am a follow my senses kinda guy. If it feels wrong, or a trap or right I follow those first.

                • #14
                  Trail life is misguided. Instead of an original program around Christian values, they copy the BSA program and modify the names and terms. The families that have issues with BSA should join their church youth group and be happy.

                  Comment


                  • scoutergipper
                    scoutergipper commented
                    Editing a comment
                    So how would you reconcile being "morally straight" with a practicing, unmarried gay Scout or Adult Leader?

                  • SM bob
                    SM bob commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I take morally straight as practicing a religion and striving to be a good person.

                    Is a sin not a sin? Is one sin worse than another? Everyone sins. There are many existing adult leaders who commit adultery or infidelity. Mathew 6 : 14“For if you forgive others * their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others, your Father will not forgive you your sins

                    As I said in the beginning of this thread, let God judge we should stick to scouting

                  • mashmaster
                    mashmaster commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Being morally straight is subjective. Scouting accepts almost all religions as far as I know. only a subset of them say anything about homosexuality. And some christian faiths accept gays as well, for instance the United Church of Christ. So I guess I have trouble wrapping my head around why morally straight has to be of a particular religion.

                • #15
                  I read about Trail Life and my first thought was the BSA should go to court and get injunctions against this group. How DARE they just change the names of things and think they have a "new" program. They even have a conversion (ha ha, not!) chart for changing BSA ranks, etc. to Trail Life equivalents. It's a copy cat program and National should sue them. It's fine to have your own group if you have sincere differences of opinion, but have some originality. Don't copy because you don't have enough creativity to come up with your own ranks and badges.

                  Comment


                  • qwazse
                    qwazse commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Since when is there a copyright on fire starting?

                    Also, religious recognitions are not a requirement of BSA, a distinctive of the "Trail to Freedom."

                    Were I to advise a TL group; however, I would encourage the boys to demonstrate that they have mastered most of the skill related requirements before requesting sign-off on the respective advancement.
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