Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

DO TROOP COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE TO BE ON CHARTER TO SIT ON BOARDS OF REVIEW

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • DO TROOP COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE TO BE ON CHARTER TO SIT ON BOARDS OF REVIEW

    We are in the process of working on our re-charter. With the recent hike in charter fees per person we are trying to be smart as we have limited funds. For the Troop Committee I know that by the rules we must list at least 3 members on the charter. Normally those would be the Committee Chair, Committee Treasurer, and Secretary or another position. At the same time we have upwards of ten parents who attend the meetings, including the 3 I've listed, with some having official roles and some not. One member has stated that any parent not listed on the Charter is not on the Troop Committee and can not sit on Boards of Review. It was stated that this is a BSA rule. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it is indeed a BSA rule, I have not been able to find it worded specifically like this. Would anyone know if it is a BSA rule and if so, where it comes from? In many ways this seems a bit overstated since I've seen some Troops use their Assistant Scoutmasters on Boards of Review (which I know is not correct), or parents/leaders from other Troops when necessary (for example, while at Summer Camp). Ultimately we want to do the right thing, but we have very limited funds and plans that will need those funds. At $25 a person including these additional members would take our charter from around $500 to about $800.
    Last edited by Scoutmaster Jim; 11-26-2013, 10:10 AM.

  • #2
    BOR consists of "three to six unit committee members". If they are not registered, they are not "unit committee members". There is no BSA rule about having "others" present, but should not be the SM, ASM or boy's parent, unless they just want to observe. I agree with qwazse...in my units, the adults always paid their own registration fees. If we raised funds for the troop, it went for the boys. Also, technically, there are no registered positions called "Advancement Chair", "Treasurer" or "Secretary"...just "Committee Chair (CC)" and "Committee Member (MC)". And there is certainly not a position called "Unregistered Parent with Official Duties".

    Comment


    • perdidochas
      perdidochas commented
      Editing a comment
      It also says that if less than three committee members are available, parents or other adults over 21 can be part of a BOR. This should not be the routine, but is allowed.

  • #3
    Actually under the 2013 Guide to Advancement there is come leeway that troops now have on the composition of the BOR, and it can involve non registered adults. As noted below, this leeway should be the exception, not the rule.

    8.0.2.0 Particulars for Tenderfoot Through Life Ranks (or Palms) - ....The board is made up of three to six unit committee members—no more and no less. In units with fewer than three registered committee members available to serve, it is permissible to use knowledgeable parents (not those of the candidate) or other adults (registered or not) who are at least 21 years of age and who understand Boy Scouting’s aims. Using unregistered adults for boards of review must be the exception, not the rule. Registered committee members familiar with the unit program, who have had a background check, and who are Youth Protection trained are preferred. Scheduling boards of review when and where committee members can attend usually alleviates the problem of not having enough committee members for a board.

    Do your troop a favor and pick up a copy of the Guide to Advancement. If you have parents who are functioning as committee members, but are not registered, they should register as soon as possible.

    Comment


    • #4
      At our recent committee meeting we were trying to whittle down the number of paid adults. I specifically asked our UC, who just happened to be at the meeting, what was the minimum number of registered adults we needed to stay legal in the eyes of BSA: "Two, an SM and a CC."

      Comment


      • click23
        click23 commented
        Editing a comment
        He is wrong, from the New Unit Application.

        "The Chartered Organization selects one of its members to register as chartered organization representative who may also serve as chair or as unit committee member if needed. All units must have a unit leader and a minimum of five paid youth. There must be at least three committee members, with one named chair..."

        Three committee members, one as the chair who can also be the COR, and a scoutmaster would be the minimum.

    • #5
      From 2013 Guide to Advancement:
      8.0.0.3 Composition of the Board of Review
      A board of review must consist of no fewer than three
      members and no more than six, all of whom must be at
      least 21 years of age. For further specifi cations, see
      “Particulars for Tenderfoot Through Life Ranks (or Palms),”
      8.0.2.0, and “Particulars for the Eagle Scout Rank,”
      8.0.3.0. Unit leaders and assistants shall not serve on a
      board of review for a Scout in their own unit. Parents or
      guardians shall not serve on a board for their son. The
      candidate or his parent(s) or guardian(s) shall have no
      part in selecting any board of review members.

      And

      1. The board is made up of three to six unit committee
      members—no more and no less. In units with fewer
      than three registered committee members available to
      serve, it is permissible to use knowledgeable parents
      (not those of the candidate) or other adults (registered
      or not) who are at least 21 years of age and who
      understand Boy Scouting’s aims. Using unregistered
      adults for boards of review must be the exception,
      not the rule. Registered committee members familiar
      with the unit program, who have had a background
      check, and who are Youth Protection trained are
      preferred. Scheduling boards of review when and
      where committee members can attend usually
      alleviates the problem of not having enough
      committee members for a board.

      Comment


      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        Never had a BOR with 6 member. most of ours are three or four.

      • FrankScout
        FrankScout commented
        Editing a comment
        Only boards we ever did with 6 members were Eagle boards, back when the troop picked the members, and a district rep. was present.

    • #6

      This is just me personally. I am running the same issue.. It is great if you are a Pack/Troop who have an abundance of volunteers, I have been in units and cheerfully paid my own dues.. My pack is still pulling teeth to get enough volunteers signed up so we can recharter.. Asking them to please, please, please take a position.. Then turn around and say "By the way that will cost you $25".. But, we don't have scouts/parents selling popcorn or volunteering to help with any other fundraiser.. So funds are also tight..

      Personally, my feeling is to charter all direct contact leaders, (maybe not as important in a pack where parents seem to come along on most things, but very important if my Web leaders want to take the Webs on outings without parents in tow, and similarly a troop where there are only 2 or 3 direct contact leaders going out on overnights. If they don't charter with BSA, they are not getting that background check. You also have no way to track if they are keeping up on Youth Protection unless you ask for a paper copy proof from them.. Where I plan to cut corners is on the registration of Committee members.. Register the 3 you need, others are just volunteers.

      Comment


      • FrankScout
        FrankScout commented
        Editing a comment
        I agree with Moosetracker here. If you have leaders who have frequent direct contact, or who attend activities/camping trips, they should be registered for BG check/liability/insurance purposes. Don't gamble!

    • #7
      So mossetracker, if you only register the three, and the others are just volunteers, are volunteers permitted to sit on Boards of Review? Also, what do you guys think about my Assistant Scoutmaster issue, where I have some that can't come to meetings, and others who aren't coming on trips. Yes, I can ask them if they want to be on the charter again, but they would likely just say "yup, put me on". It just seems difficult, like someone wrote above, to say "thanks for stepping up, now pay $25".

      Comment


      • qwazse
        qwazse commented
        Editing a comment
        So, it sounds like your adults don't pay dues.
        Are you concerned because the boys will have to raise more funds to pay for adult registrations if you keep your pool of adults large?
        Or, is this about more than just money?

    • #8
      Yeah, I would let them sit on the BOR.. I would still take my active committee members, but we just aren't registering you because of the expense.. Over a parent that is not involved.. Basically the wording in the Advancement gives you the wiggle room to use non-registered parents.. Do it.. Especially if you know they are active enough in the troop that they know their stuff. Believe me, Council will not double check to come back and tell you that you have over used this option.

      As stated, doesn't matter that they are not there all the time. For my piece of mind, I would register direct contact leaders if they are going out on troop events with the scouts.. I do not want some law suit about some sort of youth protection issue have the teeth by pointing out that the adult leader perpetrator was not registered in BSA, and no background check was issued and he never took Youth protection or it was 6 or 7 years since it was taken.

      Perhaps think about changing your policy on what your unit pays for. It would have to be assessed the following year, but have something that the unit pays if the Adult promises to make 85% of the events.. They will only pay 1/2 if the person plans to make 50 percent and the person can pick up their own tab if it will be occasional.. The following year, you would have to look at their participation levels and if they didn't follow through on their promise, tack the difference onto the next years charge.. A little complex, but yeah if the Troop is picking up the tab, they should expect a commitment from the Adult..

      I would not though remove any direct contact leaders from the rosters, and still use them as direct contact leaders though.. CYA yourself and your CO..

      Comment


      • FrankScout
        FrankScout commented
        Editing a comment
        Oops, didn't read ahead before posting my last comment. Absolutely yes.

    • #9
      Because of games being played at the national level. Why give them the extra money to pay for the summit?????

      I would register the bare minimum adults to maintain the charter, still get them youth protection trained.

      Comment


      • #10
        First Thing ...OH My Gosh...If Ya Can't afford $25 a Year to Register...Get out of Scouting. Adults should foot their Own Bill. For $2.083333333333333333 a Month You can be registered.
        My Gosh when I was a Youth I paid $0.50 a week Dues..Did not Kill me..Did not Prevent me from spending Money on Uniforms, I never missed a Campout, I never Missed a Camporee, I never Missed a Scout-o-Rama, I never Missed First Aid Meets. I went to Summer Camp...$2.00 in Dues a Month Never prevented me from participating in Scouting. A Year of Registered Scouting costs less than a Movie with a Soda and a Tub of Popcorn.

        Since I have been back in Scouting I have paid my own Registration fees. I have paid My Own Registration Fees to Events.

        Only Fees a Charter Organization should pay for is the Unit Charter Fee.
        Unit Funds should pay for Boy Orientated things like Awards, Rank Advancements, Skill Badges, Merit Badges, Activity Participation Patches such as Scout Sunday..Cub Scout Neckerchiefs, Boy Scout Troop Neckerchiefs.
        Unit Funds also should pay for Transportation fees to events, Banquets, Equipment, Facilities (especially if the Scout Unit has Facilities no one else uses), Yearly Vehicle Registration and Maintenance Fees if Unit has them.

        A former youth member from the Troop I was last with sends in his Adult Registration each year even though he has never attended a Single event and even lives 175 miles away because he wants to remain on the Troop Rolls as a Member of the Troop but he pays his own dues. For 6 Years now

        Second Thing: Quit trying to Skirt the rules people...A Scout is Honest....What has happened to a Scouters integrity? An Unregistered Adult is Not a Committee Member. An Unregistered Adult is Not allowed to Function as a Committee Member. if you Knowingly allow an Unregistered Adult to perform Functions you are Lying.

        Comment


        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          Again, your talking about people who want to be a part of scouting.. If you have a bunch of parents who want everyone else to do it for them, and you are pushing someone to step up, the $25 is just and extra reason why then don't want to do it.. Right now, the lack of Adult participation is what will make or break this pack, we may not recharter Dec 7th due to not enough people stepping up. When you are looking at it from that perspective then Adult Leadership is worth using Pack funds on. Way more important then if the boys get ice cream, or the pack pays for them to go to the local hockey game.. Because if the Pack folds, then they won't get ice cream or go to the hockey game anyway. Unless it's at some big bash we throw for closing shop.

          We don't do a committee meeting, we do a Parents meeting and we let all parents vote, we did that before the rate hike, again if you want parents to participate then you do what you can to try to bring them in. So, in my book, you don't need to be registered to organize summer camp registration, or do popcorn or write up minutes to a meeting, and send out thank-you's .. The CC and the treasure, Advancement, those would be my three..

        • JoeBob
          JoeBob commented
          Editing a comment
          j stud of tex ass:
          "If Ya Can't afford $25 a Year to Register...Get out of Scouting."
          I'm trying to take your advice. I keep asking our committee to fire me.
          But while you're riding up on that high horse, would you mind looking around for me and tell me what my troop is getting for the $1,500 plus check we'll be writing for our charter?

      • #11
        JoeBob commented
        Yesterday, 08:37 PMj stud of tex ass: "If Ya Can't afford $25 a Year to Register...Get out of Scouting."
        I'm trying to take your advice. I keep asking our committee to fire me. But while you're riding up on that high horse, would you mind looking around for me and tell me what my troop is getting for the $1,500 plus check we'll be writing for our charter?




        Well Well ..Well..Well... I will let Your Typing Skills speak for it self or Your Eyesight but back on Topic.
        anyways back to Fees
        Recharter Fee....$40.00 per Unit...So assuming that Your Charter Organization does not charter More than 1 Unit of Each
        Pack 40.00
        Troop 40.00
        Crew 40.00
        Total So Far 120.00

        No Idea why Your Being Charged $1500.00 To Recharter
        How Many Youths are you Recharter?
        Maybe consider asking the scouts if they Want Boy's Life..Why Waste Money on Boy's Life if it is Not being read or Saved?
        Are You Buying Everyone new Uniforms and Handbooks Also

        If Your running Short of Money..Fundraiser
        Better Management of What Ya Spending Money On.


        Comment


        • Nike
          Nike commented
          Editing a comment
          At $25 a person and say a $1 per registered person for insurance (varies by council and is rolled into recharter) plus the unit fee, $1500 equals about 56 people. Forty boys, eight SM/ASMs, eight CC/MCs and a COR, and you're there.

          Last year you could've gotten Boys Life for all the youth and hit around $1500 for the above group.

      • #12
        Well If Adults paid there Own Fees and Boys paid $2.00 per Month Dues Lets See where we are at

        Troop Recharter Fee 40.00
        Insurance X54 54.00
        Total Recharter Fees 94.00

        Comment


        • Nike
          Nike commented
          Editing a comment
          No matter where the money comes from, collected, fundraised, granted by CO, Joe Bob's unit needs to turn over a $1500 check to recharter for 2014. His legitimate question is "What do we get for that?"

          Stop being so obtuse.

        • qwazse
          qwazse commented
          Editing a comment
          Scouting Magazine for every adult
          New advancement requirements
          A whole lot of lawyering

          That about sums it up.

        • JoeBob
          JoeBob commented
          Editing a comment
          jps toad:
          National BSA has decided that we, Scouts and Scouters alike, are a piggy bank. I can see from your comments that you were not aware of the lucre demanded, so your blind defense is understandable. $94 is almost half what BSA requires for the smallest unit allowed: 6 paid youth and two adults.

          Nike & qwazse:
          Thanks for letting me vent. Fees go up, but services either go down or remain the same. There is no return on our investment.
          You know what really sticks in my craw? That $1500 is an annual payment. Every year we pay again for the same material.

      • #13
        qwazse commented #7.1 So, it sounds like your adults don't pay dues. Are you concerned because the boys will have to raise more funds to pay for adult registrations if you keep your pool of adults large? Or, is this about more than just money?

        Nope, this is just about funding. We're a small Troop with just 13 Scouts. We have 4 Assistant Scoutmasters of various levels of involvement and a Troop Committee of maybe 8. So effectively we have just as many adults as we do Scouts, and maybe that's a good thing. I do see both points of the responses above. It's the whole $25 a person, which equals a big portion of our treasury, versus what we are getting for that, versus the rules. And having been informed that these funds effectively go 100% to National, the question of what the local Troops get, meaning what the Scouts get, is very valid. Sure, we've discussed whether adult leaders should pay their own charter fee, but as far as the leaders, the ones that attend the events are already paying for their son's camping/food, their gas to get to the camping grounds, etc. To say, now give us another $25, seems a bit unrealistic. At the same time I do like one recommendation above that whether a leader is paid for should be based on their involvement. If they meet a minimal requirement of attendance/involvement then they are paid for, and if not then they either pay for themselves, or it's based on how involved they've been. Maybe for the Troop Committee it should be that anything beyond the Committee Chair and Treasurer has to pay for themselves.

        Comment


        • qwazse
          qwazse commented
          Editing a comment
          So it's funding. Think of it this way:
          Adults pay from their own pocket, or
          Adults pay from their boys' pocket.

          Either is fine as long as everyone knows what's going on. The treasurer's expense report should specify "amount paid from dues collected" vs. "amount paid from troop fund". Chances are your more active adults if they understand what's happening will want to make a donation to offset their membership costs, if they can.

          Like everything in life, there are pluses and minuses to either approach, leave that for your committee to hash out while you're tending the boys.

        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          Scoutmaster Jim - you need 3 on committee.. Perhaps for a troop the Advancement Chair should be your 3rd paid seat. At least if your troop runs the Advancement Chairs position the way our troop did, he had about the same amount of direct leader contact as the ASM's did. He was the one then went to see to figure out MBC's in the local area and to turn in blue cards. Also although the older boys did most of the Advancement of the youth, he played a part in the guiding of the older boys if they were too easy or too hard with their expectations.. Perhaps you as SM do all of that though.. Our SM always saw the Advancement Chair as an ASM who was focused on a specific task.

          PS. Since your Advancement Chair should be on most BOR's it also gives you at least one registered Committee Member signing the BOR paperwork.
          Last edited by moosetracker; 11-27-2013, 07:54 AM.

      • #14
        We write off our adult fees on our taxes, every little bit helps. If you want to help your adult volunteers with their fees, drop their son's and have them pay the adult fee. This also helps in recruiting.

        At the pack level one smart CC we had would cover adult fees the first partial year by his own donation. This helped him recruit, as he found it hard to convince someone to step up, then ask for $ 15. Once they were in the job for a while it wasn't as much a problem to get a check.

        I love working with the boys, and if it means $ 2 a month, happy to do it.

        Comment


        • #15
          No one has demanded you pay anything...Pay or leave simple. You don't like it move onto an Organization.
          creative typing about my Name ain't gaining you no sympathy..keep it up
          Obvious you have no idea what it means to be Kind or Friendly Have a good Day sir

          Comment


          • JoeBob
            JoeBob commented
            Editing a comment
            jipped stud:

            Kind?
            "OH My Gosh...If Ya Can't afford $25 a Year to Register...Get out of Scouting."
            Friendly?
            " if you Knowingly allow an Unregistered Adult to perform Functions you are Lying."

            Let's work on 'mentally awake':
            " The term "Volunteer" sometimes can mean Adult Leader depending upon context but can also refer to non-registered adults who help."
            http://www.meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Adult_Leader

            If you can find a written citation that requires all adults working with a troop to be registered, I'll pass that on to our Unit Commissioner, who believes otherwise.

            You may want to re-think picking a fight with someone who knows how to use the 'shift' key...
        Working...
        X