Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

How Prepared are Utah Scouts?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How Prepared are Utah Scouts?

    Interesting article following the Utah goblin toppling. Touches on lack of required training but not quality of training. No mention of tour permits or what training and more important what outdoor experience leaders have had prior to leading outings, extreme or otherwise. I agree about small (patrol size) groups for outings.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politic...tml.csp?page=1
    Last edited by RememberSchiff; 10-28-2013, 06:33 PM. Reason: editted link back to first page of article

  • #2
    Park rangers cringe when they see scouts. Imagine that.

    Comment


    • #3
      That was very interesting. 200K in Utah--That is a lot of scouts. BTW-I thought the GSS said a minimum of 4 adults per outing? I think they had only 2 and they did not look that fit.

      Comment


      • pcola
        pcola commented
        Editing a comment
        On page 4 of the 2013 GSS it say "Safety rule of four: No fewer than four individuals (always with the minimum of two adults) go on any backcountry expedition or campout."

        You are right that the leaders should have been more fit - same paragraph from GSS continues: "Additional adult leadership requirements must reflect an awareness of such factors as size and skill level of the group, anticipated environmental conditions, and overall degree of challenge."

      • Tampa Turtle
        Tampa Turtle commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you, We try to go with 4 adults. I do not do some activities when I think I up to the physical challenge,

    • #4
      Seeking adventures outdoors » Utah’s three Scout councils contend extreme misbehavior is rare and goes against training. They note that nearly 200,000 Scouts in Utah spend about a half-million nights camping a year.

      I sure wouldn't be bragging that my Scouts only spent on average 2.5 nights camping. Even if half are non-camping Cubbies, that's only an average of 5 nights a year. The real show of course is in the comments. Bring your fire resistant suit for reading, let alone participating.

      Comment


      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        Nice catch.

      • perdidochas
        perdidochas commented
        Editing a comment
        LDS troops don't camp on Saturday night, so that probably skews their stats. For them 5 nights of camping is 5 trips, for us, 5 nights of camping is 2.5 trips. That said, it is on the low side.

    • #5
      I suspect that 200K scouts doing 500K nights means a lot of partially active scouts. Our Troop has 50-70 boys on paper but maybe 35 "core". I suspect our average is a lot lower than I would like.

      Comment


      • Nike
        Nike commented
        Editing a comment
        To get to 15 nights per "active" Scout, that's only about 33,000 truly active youth, 1/6 of the purported registered. It'd be interesting to compare other councils' stats, if stuff like that is available.

    • #6
      G2SS and all that nonsense aside.

      The minimum adult to scout ratio to pull a tour permit is 1:10.

      Comment


      • #7
        Kinda uneasy feeling with this thread. Utah Scouts? The boys weren't the one's tipping things over. Utah Scouters? Maybe.

        Park rangers have more problem with the youth or the adults?

        I'm thinking this is not limited to Utah either. Hopefully that isn't some code word for LDS.

        Just a feeling.

        RememberSchiff, I'm not assuming anything on your part, it's more of a feeling on my part.

        Stosh
        Last edited by jblake47; 10-28-2013, 02:29 PM.

        Comment


        • Twocubdad
          Twocubdad commented
          Editing a comment
          Yeah, the comments section there is brutal including a two-page detour into the Mountain Meadow Massacre. Wow. Makes what passes here as "Mormon bashing" seem like a picnic.

        • RememberSchiff
          RememberSchiff commented
          Editing a comment
          I just took "Utah Scouts" from the article headline. I agree not limited to any one state or CO, maybe Utah publicizes it more?

        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          I kinda assumed that so I just left it as "an uneasy feeling."

          Stosh

      • #8
        Again, the reality is that there are some rangers that have had some poor or scary contacts with scouts and scouters, so are a bit biased. But, when compared to the general public and the levels of use, I submit that the respect for the outdoors and others is far greater on the Scouting side. Our local rangers are very pro Scouting because they clean up the messes left by others much of the time, and they also do regular trail work that would not get done otherwise. IF we do have a "reported" negative group our local leaders will respond to it and attempt to deal with the group to improve their understanding and future activity. And I would suggest that this response from the local Scouting community is more the norm than non response, and certainly at a higher level of curative action than is seen in the general public.

        Lets not forget that every opportunity media gets to degrade scouting they tend to take; but they hardly ever publicize the far more common positive actions.

        Comment


        • #9
          Originally posted by skeptic View Post
          Lets not forget that every opportunity media gets to degrade scouting they tend to take; but they hardly ever publicize the far more common positive actions.
          Yeah Skeptic I'd bet this is true of the media with regards to most anything... they like to villianize anything they can to get readership or get you to turn in to the nightly news. Anything that purports itself to be "good", BSA, youth pastor, school teacher, cop, etc... is automatically a lightening rod if / when something bad happens anywhere close to the "good" thing. It makes the news that more sensational, eh?


          Comment


          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            I noticed a long time ago, the media that has been attacking these "good" things has taken an even bigger hit in their credibility. Real journalism went down the toilet a loooong time ago. I used to avoid the opinion page because it really wasn't news. Now I avoid the whole thing because that's all it is, one big opinion page. Haven't read a newspaper for years. It's been over 20 years since I had one delivered to my house.

            I have been involved in a ton of events that "made the news". 100% of the time, the reporters got it wrong. There has to be some reason for it, but I can't for the world figure it out.

            Stosh

          • Tampa Turtle
            Tampa Turtle commented
            Editing a comment
            BSA is held to a higher standard because we claim to HAVE a higher standard. So when someone screws up they get called on it. Gee BSA likes pictures of quasi-military uniformed boys standing on the summit with an american flag it is kinda asking for it. It seems GSUSA does not really portray itself the same way and I think that is partially why I do not think they get picked on. The message I get about Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts is that it is (true or not) all about the kids and fun.

            As for journalist they just don't have the time to research anything anymore. And sometimes what we may think of as news is not of interest to their viewers. And there are times there really aren't "two sides of a story" though they will try to find it.

            I do not agree that media takes every opportunity to degrade scouting at least in my experience at the local level. I see plenty of local stories about Eagle scout projects, food drives, and pinewood derby. One Troop got booted by their CO over the new gay policy and they got lots of favorable articles --and offers of new meeting places--folks were upset the boys got caught in the middle. But if you are a Scout Master and you do something really bad they are gonna pick up on that.

        • #10
          I told my youth this week that discipline regarding fire management, first aid skills, and orienteering are the first step toward high adventure. I know they can haul bodies and packs anywhere, but when they stop for a break, their attention to detail needs to be flawless.

          Arguing with me or SM that a fire is out even though their hands feel the warmth does not instill confidence.

          Comment


          • #11
            I just had that argument last weekend!

            Comment


            • #12
              Training is the problem, not the solution.

              Baden-Powell designed a week-long immersion course to teach indoor volunteers how to think like outdoorsmen.

              Leadership Development reversed the course to teach indoor volunteers how to think like a CEO.

              The problem is that we pay our mountaintop CEO role model a million dollars a year to explain why camping is not "inclusive," and to heap ridicule upon the Scoutcraft program guaranteed to America's children by an Act of Congress.

              And its not just the Utah Scouters that are out Storming and Deforming:

              http://inquiry.net/outdoor/leave_no_trace.htm
              Last edited by Kudu; 10-30-2013, 07:12 PM.

              Comment

              Working...
              X