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Summer Camp - In Council or Out?

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  • Summer Camp - In Council or Out?

    This has been a hot topic for years within our Council. Anyone else??????? We have two camps within our council that are good camps but seem better suited to younger Scouts (IMO). For the last three years we have attended summer camp at Tesomas and have enjoyed it but our troop gets the stink eye from some of the council leaders for going out of council. I say it's up to the boys and the leaders where we go. Thoughts?????

  • #2
    Yep they asked us a couple of years ago at roundtable those in council were applauded and those who the rest were cat called or met with a hiss. When they do it this year I am going to stand up and object and say what does it matter as long as they are going.


    go where you want.

    We don't get free advancement because we go out of council to summer camp.....Let me see, We save $50 per boy and the program is better.

    Comment


    • fred johnson
      fred johnson commented
      Editing a comment
      I've promised myself that the next time this happens, I'm just walking out. And I stay sitting when they call my unit.

      I've seen that done too for friends of scouting or JTE or one of another things. I've hit JTE and FOS plenty of times. But the recognition is done more so that you don't want be one of the group still sitting.

  • #3
    We go out. Anyone hassles you, just tell them your reasons. Up to the council to step up their game and make their camp something worth going to.

    You keep going to Tesomas...that'll make room at your camp for our troop...I've heard good things about that one though

    Comment


    • RandyPrice
      RandyPrice commented
      Editing a comment
      Once you attend Tesomas I think you will be hooked!

    • perdidochas
      perdidochas commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm with you. If they want us to camp there, they need to step up their game. I'm a believer in the free market.

  • #4
    My council and/or OA requires in council every other year. (I know many have said they can't do that and I have not looked into it in depth yet.) It doesn't seem right to me, but we do have an excellent facility. The MB program is not as extensive as yours and seems weak on choices to me. I honestly would like to see scouts do 2 or 3 max and do them well and have some fun. 5 is to much. I would like to see a goal of traveling to a different region every other year.

    Comment


    • Papadaddy
      Papadaddy commented
      Editing a comment
      "Requires"??? Or else what?

    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      The implication seems to be no OA elections. When we do the out of council election form we have to sign saying we will camp in council the following year.

      I mentioned this before and was resoundly told by this board "they can't do that". I just haven't looked into it yet to see what the real deal is. Maybe they are just trying to intimidate.
      Last edited by King Ding Dong; 10-16-2013, 08:09 AM.

    • Papadaddy
      Papadaddy commented
      Editing a comment
      Well, your OA lodge can't "require" you to do anything. This all has to be emanating from the SE. Your COR is an ex officio member of the District Committee and the only one in your unit who has a vote. Make sure they are attending and voicing their displeasure.

  • #5
    We have been going out of council for 15 years now. We saw our program and leadership going down hill and made the change. We are extremely happy with the out of council camp and are treated like family. We also saved over $8,000.00 in camp and adult fees over our council camp. Enough said.

    Dale

    Comment


    • #6
      As long as the boys are getting a quality camping experience, the location of the camp shouldn't be an issue. That being said I think it's important to at least consider the local Council's camping program. If the boys are wanting something beyond what they offer, then go to a different camp that offers it. But make sure the PLC is looking at the camping options, not just the adults. Go with what the boys want. I once ran into a Troop that always went out of Council- when I inquired why the Scoutmaster informed me that the Troop had a bad experience at our local camp in 1989 and will never go back again. Camps can change dramatically in short amounts of time based on program and staffing, and our camp had. They were willing to let a 24-year-old customer service issue turn into a life-long grudge against the camp and its staff (even though many current staff hadn't been born in '89).

      If you do go out of Council be open with your fellow Scouters and your Council about why you do- if local things are "broken" or the local program/facilities are not what the boys want the Council's Camping Committee needs to hear it. (I can't promise you they'll like that or that they'll do anything about it, but they need to hear it) Feed

      Comment


      • #7
        For 15 YEARS We had no choice. In the 1980's we had two camps. Ran Summer Camps at Both, 1 week of staff and 2 weeks of Campers...Horizons Wilderness was 1150 acres with 60 acre lake. Horizons was our Aquatics/Wilderness Camp. Scouts cooked each meal by fire in Camp. Earned Aquatic Merit Badges. Camp Perkins was Shooting Sports as it had Archery and Rifle Ranges. Offered different merit badges than what was offered at Horizons. But in 2002, Northwest Texas Council officials sold the property to developers for $1.1 million. Leaving us with Camp Perkins only a Mere 60 acre camp in the Red River Basin. 2012 was the first time in 15 years our Council had run a Summer Camp. Camp Perkins has not been developed at all in the way of COPE Courses, Climbing walls, Zip Lines, Bike Trails.. Not a Thing. Council was gonna sell the Camp but the family was smart in their trust. Land will revert back to family if not operated by Local Council. So Now we are faced with few Troops wanting to spend summer camp at a bare roots hardly no program and No Out Of Council troops wanting to attend our Camp.

        Comment


        • #8
          Living in Florida and camping every month year around, our troop found it was an adventure for the boys and an experience for adults to go someplace a little cooler. We normally went to NE Georgia or North Carolina, both of which have hills and white water rafting available. They also gave us a chance to interact with leaders and units from other places. We were fortunate to have a troop that was well off enough that money was not a big deal, so that really wasn't a consideration. One of our greatest experiences was a week of summer camp at Owasippe in Michigan. That was really a worthwhile trip. Total change of culture, not to mention weather.

          Comment


          • LeCastor
            LeCastor commented
            Editing a comment
            Kahuna, our Troop typically goes in-council, too, but next year the Scouts voted on my suggestion that we attend Woodruff Scout Reservation in Blairsville, GA as a change of pace. We have nothing against Ed Bryant Scout Reservation. On the contrary! We love going to EBSR but I thought it would be a nice variation to see a different "culture", as you say. Woodruff offers the whitewater rafting and many other things that EBSR does not. (I have to admit that I'm interested in seeing Woodruff after 20 years! I went there as a Scout when in the Atlanta Area Council.)

        • #9
          Running a successful unit is hard enough without going to a crummy camp. If the council camp has a good program we will consider it, but like Kahuma, we enjoy getting out of the Oklahoma 100 degree plus weather and head up into the mountains of New Mexico or Colorado. What can motivate a council more to improve their camp program than loosing business to better competition. Barry

          Comment


          • #10
            Our SE also likes to berate units who go out of council, which most do. Most rotate among the 5 or 6 camps within a day's driving distance. We also get a lot of OOC troops coming to our camp, and they are charged more (allegedly to make up for the FOS and popcorn money that those units do not contribute). When I was on the Council Camping Committee, my philosophy was, as long as we have a scout in every cot, who cares? When I would talk to other units about why they go OOC, the answers are the same...no high adventure for older scouts, the weather sucks (temps 95+ every day with high humidity), and mosquitoes and ticks, which apparently the camps at higher elevations don't have to deal with. We do have Lyme disease endemic in the area, and I know several adults who have contracted it at camp.

            Comment


            • #11
              I always went where the boys wanted to go. The first year we attended council camp. They found another camp that fit their needs a lot better and went there after that. It's a vote at the end of each summer camp as to where they want to go the next year. They have a whole year to find a different camp and so far as I know, they liked the camp they were in. There are not many non-mess hall patrol-method camps out there and that's the #1 consideration in their choice.

              By the way, when local council people question the troop going elsewhere, I simply ask them if the patrol-method considerations can be met at the camp, when they say no, it answers their question and brings the conversation to a quick halt.

              Stosh
              Last edited by jblake47; 10-16-2013, 08:30 AM.

              Comment


              • #12
                Like Kahuna we like to go to a cooler place up in the Mountains during the summer so we are out of council. Our in-council is like the flames of hell in June (but fine for winter camp). We usually go to Woodruff SR in Blairsville or Camp Daniel Boone in the Blue Ridge. I think we get higher attendance because of the topographic change. Now if we had summer camp by the beach we might stay...hmmmm.

                Comment


                • perdidochas
                  perdidochas commented
                  Editing a comment
                  How is Camp Daniel Boone? Our troop has decided to go there this summer (we already have reservations)

                • Tampa Turtle
                  Tampa Turtle commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I have not been. We did Woodruff 4 years in a row and I missed Boone. I heard the topography was better, water colder, food worse, and staff less engaged than Woodruff. But some of the older boys liked it. Could tell you by July ,14.

              • #13
                I'm in the cubs now as a leader, so this is all just "entertainment" for me at this point....
                If a troop camps often, I can't imagine them wanting to stay local for the big summer event. Especially in these parts of FL where the topography is in my opinion BORING.

                As a scout when I was a boy in coastal NC, we went to a camp in a neighboring council.... still not far from home but different enough. We had fun. Still, if given the means I would much rather have gone to some mountains and a nice change of pace.

                Comment


                • #14
                  And there is nothing like being away to appreciate what you got back home.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    As Council VP for Program I promote our camp heavily. I always ask units to work the Council camp into their rotations. I don't demand that they attend. I sincerely hope that they are going where the boys and the PLC want to go and not letting the adults decide. I too have units that will not attend our camp due to something that happened 15 years ago. The sad part is the the NCAP program is designed to force Councils to justify their camps through an evaluation of program, facilities and finances.Having your own units support your camp helps tremendously when going through NCAPBe warned the National and Regional folks are looking at your local camp's results and can close your camp.

                    Comment


                    • Basementdweller
                      Basementdweller commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I am ok with that.

                      Camps are expensive and are excuses given for hidden bloated budgets. That 80k they need to upgrade the pool. another 1.2 million for a dining hall.

                      Scouting has become bloated. Everyone complains about the low quality of the merit badges at summer camps. Doing away with the poorest performing ones is a good thing.

                      So what do I need in a scout camp beyond a summer camp. A kybo is nice and that is it. how much to maintain a chuck of land with a few trails on it and a dozen campsites and kybos. don't even need running water.

                    • Papadaddy
                      Papadaddy commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Just as in any other business, if the Camp wants to be successful and survive, they need to produce a product that is in demand. The weather cannot be controlled, and if that is the primary reason Scouts go elsewhere, then perhaps it needs to close. That would break my heart, though.
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