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Lets Compare Costs of Our Council Events

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  • #16
    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    Cub-N-Pal camp for $28 for two people for Friday - Sunday. That's a good deal. 1200 participants (600 cubs / 600 dads) means that you DO have some council staff supporting it. Maybe not a lot, but some. Plus, you have a $17,000 potential budget for a two day event. The council is going to want a paid staffer monitoring and reviewing the event to minimize risk.
    Our Bugets is Less than 2000 Total
    Troops Set Up The Stations..Council did not pay for any items Used
    Yep we have Camp Ranger..Gotta Have One or Can't Use Camp...and Usually SE and 2 DEs and Staff to Run Trading Post..
    You Forgot that there is an Additional Funding of $12 from A Sponsor plus You Did not take in account about 40% usually are Late Registers and You Did not account for additional NonRegistered siblings and Parents..We Only Account for Registered Participants in Total of 1200 not All Attendees...because of the Funding We receive.

    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    - A fair number of scouting events do not meet projections and lose money. So a 15% council surcharge is not unreasonable. Because they have to cover the costs of money losing events. Assume 10% charge and round to $3.00. That leaves $25 free.
    We only Have 4 Events and they all Make Money, 1 Week of Summer Camp, 1/2 Week Cub, 1/2 Week Webelos Camp

    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    Our council charges $5 per person per weekend for using council camps. So ... in our council ... $10 would be going for camp fees. That is reasonable. walkways ... roads ... shelters etc cost money. That leaves $15 free.
    We Have No Paved Roads.
    We Have No Walkways
    We Have 1 Pavilion
    We Have a shelter at Archery/Shooting Range
    We Charge Nothing To Camp..We Charge For Facilities See Attached Photos for Fees

    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    - Patches cost money. Smallest patches cost a dollar each in lots of 500+. 5" patches cost about $2.50 in lots of 500+. Assume $2.50 each. That leaves $12.50.
    Only 1 Parent and Cub scout gets a Patch..You Can Buy any Left Over at Scout Office After Event..
    We Get 3" Patches which cost .93 Each..see attached From ClassB

    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    - Cub-N-Pal camp that has 1200 people has planning, organization, print outs and DOES HAVE COST. Maps. Schedules. Markers. Signs. Those things are not free and you can not expect volunteers to donate their own funds to cover costs of a 1200 person event. Assume admin cost of $2.50.
    What Maps?
    What Schedules?
    What Signs? We have used Real Estate Signs we Use to Mark Camps
    Items come from That 1500 budget

    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    - I bet the camp has stations. Say 45 minutes each. Perhaps 10 total with a supply cost of $1 per scout per station. That consumes everything.
    Again the Troops Provide everything

    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    Prizes? Awards? Recognition? Other?
    Prizes No...Awards..No...Regognition...No
    Patch Yes

    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    I just can't see complaining about $28 per son/dad for a weekend event. That's $14 a person. A very good price. Yes, the unit then needs to add $20 for the family to cover food. But ya know those costs can be minimized and everyone wants to eat differently.

    Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
    Now to be honest ... I've seen many events where I wonder where all the money is going. But this one sounds very reasonable.

    Not by My Books


    • #17
      Look at This Estimate on Budget
      1200 Registered Cub/Adults
      Each Pack had at Least 3 Adult Leader if Not More
      At Least 50 Percent had a Spouse
      Everyone had Extra Kids.. went Modest on Extra Kids some had 3 or 4


      • Nike
        Nike commented
        Editing a comment
        Is there a post event budget reconciliation?

    • #18
      Nice 76k in profits.


      • #19
        I'd be asking to see the capital improvements plan for the camp that 76K was funding. And, if I told my pack parents that we weren't going to the Cub-o-ree and showed them this budget....Someone would ask how we impeach the SE.


        • #20
          Granted outside of 1200 Registered scouts..Those were just estimates. No One has seen the actual books outside of the Board and Key 3. The 2000 Expense is just what I heard thrown out at the planning for this coming Cub-n-pal (mainly for Candy) Halloween is the Theme.


          • #21
            My apologies if you don't like the answer. I can only use the insight from helping plan and budget other scouting events.

            MONEY LOSERS - You might only have four events, but the council has many events and needs to at least break even. Profit from your event helps cover staffing costs and loses from events that screw up. PLUS ... almost forgot ... your council has staff clearing all the payments and reservations. I am sure you don't have a volunteer processing 1200 reservations and deposits.

            FACILITIES - You posted facility charges. I forgot about those. You have those too. If you bring 1200 people into a scout camp, you are going to be using facilities or you will be sharing the camp with other groups who will rent them. Either your event pays for the facilities or other people will.

            LATE RESERVATIONS - I'd be surprised if that number were actually late reservations. I am surprised at the huge penalty in price. $28 versus $60 is big big difference. I'm used to a $10 penalty.

            I can agree that scouting event costs often seem hard to understand. But this one seems fairly good.

            QUESTION - Were you at all involved in planning the event and/or running the event? Did you see the real budget? Did you see who was submitting expense claims?

            I'm going to move on from this discussion because I think you are more interested in complaining than having a discussion. If you don't like the cost, don't go and/or don't volunteer.


            • #22
              Events For the Council..? We have an Eagle Dinner each year...Can you tell me what other Events we should be having? I think we also Have an awards Dinner for Silver Beaver and Such
              Council Scout-o-Rama ..No we don't have One
              First Aid Meets...No we don't have one either
              We have a Merit Badge College
              Boy Scouts..There are two Events Spring Rendezous and Fall Camporee..1 week of Summer Camp..15 years we did not have summer camp at Camp Perkins till 2011.
              Cub Scouts..We have Fall Cub-n-pal..we Have Spring Cub-n-pal..we Have 3.5 Days of Day Camp. Webelos 3.5 Days of Day
              Council wide Pinewood Derby...Hummm no on that one also
              Council wide Rain Gutter Regatta..or space Derby ...No there also
              I was involved in Some Planning, Thats why I can tell You Budget was only 2000.

              I know in My Den and Pack we had 20 Late entries. and We had some Families bring 4 kids also.
              At First the Dens were gonna do the Cooking and the last minute it was changed to Pack was Cooking..Through Donations and Coupons I was able to feed everyone for Free. Pack still wanted 10 per Person.

              They are saying we need $500,000 to put AC in the Dining Hall.
              We want them to pave the Roads but they say having Bad roads slows down is safety issue. We also need a Second road in and out of the Camp.
              our $37,000 Portable Climbing Tower needs repairs to be able to Use.. estimate is 20,000
              We have Asked for more Facilities at the Camp hoping we get some..Like Showers.. we have only 6 Male 6 Female Showers in Pool House...No Adults allowed when Kids are Showering
              I have asked to help build some outdoor kitchens..and Covered Pavilions at Camp Sites. No Not Fancy $45,000 types as someone said cost would be.
              We Want a Climbing Tower. a Repelling Tower. A Coupe Course..A Zip Line..A Nature Center
              Storm Shelters Maybe.
              I asked to build Small 10X10 Cabins for Staff and Elders..answer was no
              The North Texas Wildfire Firefighter Association wants to do Control Burns for us each year so that is a Plus.

              Council does not rent out Facilites when we have events..
              Sometimes we do have a Conflict when it comes to training..Seems the Girl Scouts rented the Camp when we were suppose to have the Second weekend of Woodbadge next spring so the weekends are spread out..Which Works out okay because SR2-3N Conclave was the Same Weekend as Woodbadge and most of Lodge was not going to attend.

              I agree a $10 Late fee is More Appropriate especially since it Covers just a Patch.
              this Cub-n-pal Troops were asked to Design a Door for Tricker Treating..and Provide the Candy. I think They wanted to also provide a Pack to Carry the Candy in.
              Decorations are Volunteer.

              I asked people to Compare Cost and No One has done that. I am not asking for Excuses as to why it costs so much, because your not giving valid reasons. My Council does not do a lot.
              Can Someone Volunteer to Run the Trading Post..Um Yes..Does it Have to Be run by Council..No but we love our trading Post Lady..I always cook her Food and So does a lot of People.
              Could we do without Paid Professionals..You Bet you. I post more Scout Related Stories on Facebook than the Council Does..I take and Share More Pictures than Council Does..I Announce More local Scouting Activities than Council Does.


              • Nike
                Nike commented
                Editing a comment
                Have you asked yourself and your SE why you seem more invested in the council than the staff? Have you ever met with the SE and asked these questions directly? It's never a stomach settling experience to see how the sausage is made.

                Your camp may not be able to sustain so much in improvements since not only do you have to build it but maintain it.

                Is your council looking to merge with a better funded/propertied council nearby?

              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                Hey, I sent you a link to our entire program guide. It is all there. Compare. Don't expect me to make a spreadsheet for you.

            • #23
              For cub scout day stuff it is typically $10. Which I am ok with.

              What I am not ok with is the $2 for bottled water. The council has the 5 gallon jugs that they could fill and have at the various stations but they choose not to do that instead they sell 12oz bottled watter for $2 a bottle. Not good for the enviroment, does not encourage proper hydaration.


              • #24
                Our district ...

                Fall district camporee - Smaller than your event. Ususally 300 scouts plus 50 to 100 adults. Friday - Sunday. Bring your own food, gear and everything.

                2013 $22 per scout, $15 per adult, $10 late fee. $37 for father/son
                2012 $14 per scout, $7 per adult, $5 late fee. $21 for father/son
                2011 $15 per scout, $7.50 per adult, $5 late fee. $22.50 for father/son

                Fall webelos experience ... Very similar size of event. A few thousand people. Sat - Sun. Bring your own food and gear.

                2013 $18 per person, no late fee. That would be $36 per person.
                2011 $15 per person, no late fee. That would be $30 per father & son.
                2009 $15 per person, no late fee. That would be $30 per father & son.

                Winter Klondike derby - Day event. No camping

                2012 $12 per scout, $5 per adult.
                2011 $10 per person.
                2011 $10 per person.

                District pienwood derby - No camping

                2013 $5 per car.
                2012 $5 per car.
                2011 $5 per car.

                I'd only be upset by the size of the late fee. Probably not a financial reason as they wanted to know their attendance numbers early to make their planning easier.

                If you want to be pissed, I'd really want to know why your pack registered late !!! That's a big waste of money and it's not the fault of the council or district. The pack volunteer leaders should have registered on time.


                As for covering losses, councils have many events and most events are run at the district level. But the council is the group that covers loses for the district events. District camporees. District derbies. You might not see them but they are there. Your events might be profitable, but others are not.


                • #25
                  Our council camporee is $12 per person with a $5 late fee. Seems reasonable to me although our PLC elected not to attend this year. We attended an out of council event instead for the 150th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg. I think that council charged $30 per person but included a t-shirt and a patch. It was also the only chance one would have to camp within the battlefield. Very well run event with 3500 attending and I thought the fee was fair. The weekend also involved a really nice service opportunity with 600 scouts clearing brush along the fence lines.


                  • #26
                    Our SE resigned effect October 15th...but he left me a Mesage to call him, so I called today was told that I was asked not to come out and Take Pictures at this years Cub-N-Pal. Someone Complained about me posting pictures on my Facebook page. I am sure I know who is behind it. Former Unit is Hosting the Cub-N-Pal...apparently Scouting in North Texas is to be a Kept secret.

                    Not sure if Council wants to merge..but It May be time for someone to take us Over.


                    • Bando
                      Bando commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute. If I'm not mistaken, you've posted that you're an adult without a scout in the program. You've admitted to repeated friction between you and your troop, to the extent you're considering finding or starting another troop. You've said that you "take and share more pictures on Facebook than the council does." And, unfortunately, you don't come off as particularly articulate in writing (I hate to say it, but really, every other word in written English is not capitalized.).

                      So, let's take a step back and look at it from the SE's position. He's looking at reports about an adult with no scout in the program, who may be having trouble with his troop, who is taking pictures of scouts at events (particularly, Cubs) and putting them on Facebook, with captions or titles that may look strange or inarticulate. Whatever problems you may have with whoever told him this information, he's probably deduced things down to those simple facts. The implication I get from what you've said is that one of the primary things you'd do at this Cub-N-Pal is take pictures with the intention of putting them on Facebook. There are two sides to every story, and like it or not, professionals have a lot of training to look out for problems that may have Youth Protection implications. Social media has opened up a whole new world, and as well-intentioned as you might be, putting children's pictures on Facebook because you think you need to pick up the slack for your council's lack of a social media presence isn't always the best idea. So could it be he's not doing this to grind the axe against you, but instead be doing so in the interest of the kids in the program? For that matter, why would we, as adults, do anything that would even remotely not pass the YP smell test?

                      Just my $0.02.

                  • #27
                    How many other Scouters out there don't have kids in the program anymore and where is that a requirement to be a Boy Scout Leader or Committee Member at any Level?
                    I admit I probably would not have come back to Volunteer if My Former Girlfriend's son had not asked me to be be his Cub Scout Mentor. I would have just kept Donating Money through Work every Year. Working 4 On/4 Off does not allow consistent meetings nor does having to ask for time off 90 days in advance. Units don't want a Leader who can not meet on the Same Day nor do they want a Leader who can't participate in events. Working for the State I simply can't take time off when I want to.

                    I adhere to YP Training..I am never alone with kids..
                    My Photographs never Violate Privacy.

                    I don't Just Take Pictures for Myself. I give all the Photos to The Council. No Idea why They Don't Share them while other Councils and Lodges have posted my Pictures?
                    I have never been asked to remove a Photo from my Facebook Page. I don't tag Youth. Family Members do that.

                    Council has a Facebook Page...Rarely Announces anything on it.
                    While Other Councils and OA Lodges seem to Embrace the publicity and Recruitment Possibilities My Council seem to hide from it.
                    How can you make possible Scouts think Scouting is Fun...By Showing Pictures of the Fun we have.

                    I have over 25 Councils on My Facebook Page...Their Daily Activities include some of the Following stories
                    Announced their summer Camp Accreditation..We Did not
                    Sporting Clay Events..They announced the Participation and Winners..We did Not
                    We had 1 Picture and Thank you to summer Camp Staff...Vs hundreds in Other Councils.
                    Announcements tend to be made a day or two before Events
                    Event Participation Photographs
                    Feel free To Look at The Facebook Page and Website for my Council

                    I have been asked by Many Parents to Take Pictures at Boy Scout and Cub Scout Events and Even EAGLE Court Of Honors. Many People Expect me to be there and Take Pictures. Many Offer to pay my fees to attend the Events. Even today I was Contacted by Units wanting to Know If I was Coming out to take pictures. Offering Me a Place around their Campfire and even to Feed Me.
                    I was asked by Former SE and Both DEs to take Pictures..They were the Ones who asked me to step up and Take Photographs because they Noticed that My Photographs Don't focus on 1 Unit or Certain Boys. I was asked by Board Members to take pictures of document history.and to take Pictures of the Camp so we can Document improvements of the Camp.
                    When we had a Control Burn it was me taking Pictures..not Camp Ranger or Paid Staff or Board Members. I gave the Picture to them and to the Texas Wildfire Firefighters Association..and was asked to come back next time for the Firefighters when They do the Next Burn next Spring.

                    Why Do Parents ask me to take pictures. Simple the Council ain't, Many Parents can't attend the Events and Many Don't have Equipment to take pictures.

                    Only 1 Person seems to have the Problem with Former Troop's Scoutmaster and the Event Chairperson.

                    Sorry If You Judge me my typing skills.
                    Do You Judge people in person based on what They Wear?