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Lets Compare Costs of Our Council Events

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  • Lets Compare Costs of Our Council Events

    Cub Scouts
    Event Cub-N-Pal. Council Camp...(Last Falls we Had 1200 Registered Participants)..No Food Provided..Pool is Closed this time of Year

    Boy Scouts
    Event Fall Camporee...State Park..No Food Provided...

    Myself I remember it costing around $5 each to attend Camporees around here when I was a Scout in the 1980's..

    I would like to see where the Money Goes and for What?

    How Does our Costs Compare to your Costs?
    Has the Cost of Pathes gone up that much?
    Does your late Fees jump as Much?

  • #2
    I don't even know what Cub-N-Pal is. We don't have that in our Council. Is it a campout with Cub and parent at a Council-owned camp?

    Never been to Camporee, so don't know price. Cub Scout day camp is $105 for early bird registration, $135 for late registration. Going to an all-day Cub Scout leader training tomorrow. Cost is $10. No lunch served.

    Comment


    • #3
      Stuff isn't free. Many events will have a t-shirt, budget $8 for four-color print. Patches for 4-7 colors can run from $1-3 depending on the number you order. Council camps cost money to run, whether the pool is open or not. In the last ten years many camps have upgraded water and sewer as well as dining facilities. Those loans need to be paid. As for events at a camporee, you've got supplies for the events, paper pushing--because there will be paper, and the weird small expenses like tape. Most of the supplies are going to be consumable too, to include arrows. And, there is a general directive to bank some money, 10-20%, of any event's fees, to pay for start-up costs for next year, mostly the patch and t-shirt order and reservation fee for the site.

      Late sign ups really knock planning for a loop. Event organizers want people to decide in a timely manner if they are attending so that orders for supplies and staffing can be finalized in a reasonable amount of time. I'm a fan of nearly prohibitive late fees.

      Can events be cheaper? Yes. But, $20 for a well planned, staffed, and supplied camporee doesn't strike me as enourmously out of line. I would prefer $10 and think it can be done for that, but I'm not the organizer. Do you want to be given a list of esoteric supplies to contribute? Do you trust that you could run a camporee with that stipulation?

      If you want to see the budget, the event organizer should be willing to show you that. Keeping things secret does not build trust or confidence.

      Comment


      • #4
        To compare apples to apples you need to provide all the details such as exact duration of time, parent and or unit leader required to attend, food, overnight, tent provided, materials costs if any, food provided for parent, unit campfires or just council, s'mores provided or BYO. What are pathes ? I am in what I assume is a rather large Council that covers east central (st. Louis) and southeast MO and a chunk of downstate IL. Lots of programs spread over a large area. http://www.stlbsa.org/SiteCollection...am%20Guide.pdf Cubs: dad and lad, mom and me : summer 24 hour, dinner and breakfast dining hall, wall tents and old cots, $35 per person. Summer day camp 9-3, drop off $90. Various summer day camps at local parks, unit provided leadership about $65. Twilight camps m-Thursday 5:30-8:00 various themes, shooting, STEM. $40/scout. Cub unit camping at Cub World about $5.00 per tent, $25 extra for site with a shelter. Usually no late fees, but may be full. Boy Scouts: units camp free on camporee fields or on trails. Cabins about $5 a head Summer camp $250 $10 savings if paid in full by 4/1 Fall camporee: bring Webelos with troop, separate day program for Webelos. Units bring food, patrol cook. Link to manual. http://blog.stlbsa.org/New-Horizons/...e%20Manual.pdf The Council has two main properties, one on outskirts of burbs 2,200 acres no lake but a pool and a 5,200 acre property about 90 miles south, no pool but 270 acre lake. Here is a link to the Council Program Guide. page 18 has a concise fee schedule. http://www.stlbsa.org/SiteCollection...am%20Guide.pdf

        Comment


        • Basementdweller
          Basementdweller commented
          Editing a comment
          I believe your SE makes $380,,000 a year in total compensation......

          http://207.153.189.83/EINS/430652676...2_0963cfcd.PDF

          Page 27 of the pdf...

          Makes you want to give to the Fund our salary campaign right.....

          Just something to think about....Wonder what he does to make him worth that much????


          Your top two paid employees make more that half a million dollars in salary.

        • King Ding Dong
          King Ding Dong commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for the specifics, but I figured as much. Always a tough call on those things. His job is institutional giving, hard to hang with the big money guys when you wear JC Penny suits. I think I gave $25 last year and a whole lot more to my pack and troop.

      • #5
        Cub-n-pal is a Friday Night- Sunday Morning Event
        No Equipment or Food Provided By Council...Staffed By Volunteers..Activities Provided by Volunteers..Only a Patch from Council

        Comment


        • King Ding Dong
          King Ding Dong commented
          Editing a comment
          Those prices seem very reasonable to me. That is assuming they put on a a quality program for you. They do need to feed the staff.

          1200 is a whole lot of cubbies. Yikes. I just bough a Daisy Red Rider for my sons birthday and set up a box in the back yard. Beats waiting in line for 45 minutes and getting 10 whole shots. Should have done it years ago.

          Do you have scheduled times for stations or is it just free-for-all ?

      • #6
        Usually about 30 Minutes per Station..
        Feed the Staff..hardly..Eat with own Unit.
        I think they Budget about $500-1000 each event for items

        Comment


        • #7
          I know in my council the cost of lodge events for the OA, the fee is 15 dollars for the membership fee plus 15 dollars for event. When I ran my last camporee back in '08, I charged 5 dollars per scout for the event. I didn't charge the adults anything because they didn't participate in the camporee and I relied on the unit adults to run stations. I never want to charge a lot for events because my camporees had so few expenses. mostly awards and rifle ammo.

          Comment


          • #8
            Some things do cost more than others which would affect overall cost. However, I recently learned the council is adding in "surcharges" as a profit generator. This is true for even the district sponsored events hosted by a local troop. The local troop does all the work and the council literally profits from it?

            As an aside, anyone else get the survey from HQ regarding council operations, etc...?

            Comment


            • #9
              Camporee cost $15

              On Donated Fraternal organization grounds, With donated portajohns, With donated station supplies, No cracker barrel, No patch, Units on their own for food.

              So what is the $15 for?

              Comment


              • Nike
                Nike commented
                Editing a comment
                What can I say other than I believe that volunteers and adult members have a right to see the budget in its entirety to include all sources of income, all payments, and all staff salaries. I think this type of information should be open record.

                If a council is charging $15 a boy for a camporee, spending $2, and banking the rest for unknown reasons, I believe that is not in keeping with the Scout Oath and Law. If I were your COR or IH, I'd be asking questions of the SE.

              • DuctTape
                DuctTape commented
                Editing a comment
                I was told some of the $ gets sent to National HQ. It seems the entire purpose of the Councils and Districts are to make money for National HQ either to fund HQ operations or to cover HQ cost over-runs for stupid decisions. When one looks at the list "Bryan" provided, do we need it?

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                I don't believe any of the money is sent to national. It is spent on Council salaries.

            • #10
              Somewhere in the paperwork from BSA that I've seen there is a claim that part of the fee for camporee or other events covers the cost of insurance for all activity participants. Plus printing costs for flyers or sign in sheets, or anything provided to participants so they know the schedule of events, and something toward the cost of hosting it on the council website, collecting payments there, and whatever fees there are if someone pays with a credit card. that is when the event is listed on say the Grand Canyon Council website, and registration occurs thru doubleknot software with paying by credit card allowed. For that all council or district events will give council 10% of the fee.


              Our cub scout day camp charges $75 per scout for a 3 day camp, no food. they get a hat, a tshirt, a patch, a certificate, archery and bbgun belt loops and pins if earned. They usually make a den flag(cut up white sheets with paint provided by day camp), a den sign or castle or something(cardboard with paint and some sharpies provided by day camp), they usually do a leather work project of some kind with either a pin glued to the back or a necklace, beads and bead string and then some other craft is done (pirate booty bag out of cloth and a pirate treasure box, or individual swords and shields out of wood, etc). Then there is the cost of the ammo for bbgun, they always have to buy some arrows for archery and the cost of the targets. Swimming is no cost except pool upkeep, extra chemicals I guess they need to add due to sheer number of scouts, they play games and may need balloons, or balls etc. Day camp I think they do a pretty good job.

              Camporee is a district event held twice a year. all volunteers, usually troops put on the activities. cost is usually $10 per person. depending on location they have to pay the cost to rent the facility or to rent port a potties. it can be expensive to rent places depending on where they hold it.

              Comment


              • #11
                deleted message
                Last edited by 5yearscouter; 10-13-2013, 07:52 PM.

                Comment


                • #12
                  I have not been on the planning side of things yet (probably will before too much longer). Here, for Cub Weekends it's $12 for scout, $6 for adults and siblings. It's Friday to Sunday morning. I think there is a cracker barrel (I've never been sent from my unit). Lots of sports, Bobcat can be earned at Fall Cub Weekend (and patch awarded/paid for by council). No food provided, T-shirts cost extra, kids get a patch. Is it a money maker for the council? Probably, but I'm okay with some of that (if they use the money to keep up Cub equipment and I am skeptical that they do from the looks of our archery equipment).

                  Cub Day Camp - $40 for a 3 day half day camp that includes hotdog lunch on last day, snacks, swimming. Cost includes T-shirt and patch. The district actually loses money on this, but Council won't let us raise cost because we are a low-income area. The council breaks us even (this is why I don't mind the fee on cub weekends).

                  Cub Resident Camp - $100 for scout, $50 for adult (6 scouts gets 2 leaders in free). 4 days/3 nights. Meals provided, Tents/Cots provided.

                  Comment


                  • Basementdweller
                    Basementdweller commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Those prices seem very reasonable.

                    So how you you feel if you paid $15 for every youth and $15 for every adult. No patches and they you had to put the program on for yourself.

                  • Sakitama
                    Sakitama commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Well, considering this year I have paid for Cub Weekend and will be teaching Archery? I suppose we'll see. But still, its only $6 so not a big deal. I probably will be sad this summer if I'm paying for me @ Cub Resident Camp and teaching Archery. But then, I'll be getting meals, so that's fair I suppose.

                • #13
                  Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post

                  The Council has two main properties, one on outskirts of burbs 2,200 acres no lake but a pool and a 5,200 acre property about 90 miles south, no pool but 270 acre lake.
                  We have almost 60 Acres of Camp No Lake..a pool..a Dining Hall..a Pavilion..Headquarters (Medic and Staff Quarters) Building, Dan Beard Lodge...a older Cabins (Women and Elders)
                  Feel free to Look at My Pictures at https://www.facebook.com/johnpaul.st...4053599&type=3 of our previous Fall Cub-N-Pal Event.

                  Comment


                  • King Ding Dong
                    King Ding Dong commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Not sure I like the idea of Webelos standing around watching. Our fall camporee where the Webelos attend has two separate programs during the day. I don't like that either. There needs to be some middle ground and wiggle room on the rules.

                  • jpstodwftexas
                    jpstodwftexas commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I was thinking More of having the Webelos attending with the Scouts participate in Scout Events as Members of the Troops. Judge the troops based on who can perform best;

                  • Nike
                    Nike commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Or apportion Webs from an area to troops in that area so they can work as a team. Any WEB/Troop camp out should have the boys doing stuff together. It's not the Combine.

                • #14
                  Our Camporee this year was $5 for the early bird and $7 regular. It paid for awards, patches and engraving on the plaque. Those items were less than $500. The remainder went into the councils pocket. We have a council implemented 15% up charge on every event. We even paid it on tip of our Jamboree fees which equated to $225 per participant. For that very reason I refuse to support FOS.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    Cub-N-Pal camp for $28 for two people for Friday - Sunday. That's a good deal. 1200 participants (600 cubs / 600 dads) means that you DO have some council staff supporting it. Maybe not a lot, but some. Plus, you have a $17,000 potential budget for a two day event. The council is going to want a paid staffer monitoring and reviewing the event to minimize risk.

                    - A fair number of scouting events do not meet projections and lose money. So a 15% council surcharge is not unreasonable. Because they have to cover the costs of money losing events. Assume 10% charge and round to $3.00. That leaves $25 free.

                    - Our council charges $5 per person per weekend for using council camps. So ... in our council ... $10 would be going for camp fees. That is reasonable. walkways ... roads ... shelters etc cost money. That leaves $15 free.

                    - Patches cost money. Smallest patches cost a dollar each in lots of 500+. 5" patches cost about $2.50 in lots of 500+. Assume $2.50 each. That leaves $12.50.

                    - Cub-N-Pal camp that has 1200 people has planning, organization, print outs and DOES HAVE COST. Maps. Schedules. Markers. Signs. Those things are not free and you can not expect volunteers to donate their own funds to cover costs of a 1200 person event. Assume admin cost of $2.50.

                    - I bet the camp has stations. Say 45 minutes each. Perhaps 10 total with a supply cost of $1 per scout per station. That consumes everything.

                    - Prizes? Awards? Recognition? Other?

                    I just can't see complaining about $28 per son/dad for a weekend event. That's $14 a person. A very good price. Yes, the unit then needs to add $20 for the family to cover food. But ya know those costs can be minimized and everyone wants to eat differently.

                    ......................

                    Now to be honest ... I've seen many events where I wonder where all the money is going. But this one sounds very reasonable.
                    Last edited by fred johnson; 10-16-2013, 05:11 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Basementdweller
                      Basementdweller commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes you can expect volunteers to pay for copying or steal it from their employers.

                      I spent $400 on copying for my day camp, It was unbudgeted and unappoved so it was unreimbursed.

                      Ya I ate it.

                    • fred johnson
                      fred johnson commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Every scouting volunteer I know swallows cost too. Gas driving scouts. Paying to attend events.

                      But staffing a 1200 person event is different. There is no way I'd volunteer myself or sneak to use the copier at work to produce enough copies of the schedule. It's one thing to use my work's copier to make 10 or 20 copies. I think they'd rather have me do that than leave the office to run the errand. Making 1200 copies is another whole topic though.
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