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  • Eagle question

    Has this happened to you? Been asked to be part of an Eagle BOR and feel that the Scout in question isn't really Eagle material? I was recently asked to be on the Eagle BOR of one of our scouts that I have known for many years. It was openly known that he was bribed to complete his Eagle. He had a crappy attitude towards scouting and only did it to achieve his bribe. I spoke with several of the other people on the BOR and was told if a scout has fulfilled all the requirements you really can't deny them their Eagle. I guess it's true but to me it diminishes the achievement.

  • #2
    That's a tough one. What about the parent that says you can't get your drivers license until you get your Eagle ? Or if you want to go on that senior trip ? I suspect many parents use a stick or carrot. I suppose a lot on how it framed. Prove to me you can be responsible if you want the use of my car.

    Comment


    • #3
      His inspiration might not be right, but if he lives by Oath and Law and did the work - he has earned it.

      Some get Eagle without trying - they just do it because they love Scouting and wake up one day and realize that all that they need is a project.
      Some want a checkbox for college applications, are prevented from getting their driver's license, are bribed somehow, etc.

      This one sounds pretty clean in knowing about the outside influence - but was he a good Scout?

      I have several boys in my unit who are dragged to meetings and campouts by mothers who know nothing about Scouting, but want their boys in it (Asian immigrant community). I consider it part of my job to make the boys like and enjoy Scouting - since they have to be here anyways.

      Comment


      • #4
        Actually I have seen Boards deny Eagles for not demonstrating scout spirit. But National rarely supports that reasoning. You can make a personal statement though. Barry

        Comment


        • #5
          If one has a problem with serving on an EBOR because of the issues described, the simple solution to the whole thing is... "No, thank you". One doesn't need to participate in issues they feel uncomfortable about.

          Stosh

          Comment


          • FrankScout
            FrankScout commented
            Editing a comment
            Agreed. I, too, would just politely decline.

          • ghermanno
            ghermanno commented
            Editing a comment
            If you decline, then you have NO right to complain about the new Eagle that can't tie a square knot or recite the 12 points of the Scout Law, or even state the Oath in his own words. Because NOT ONE cared enough to ensure that they could.

            Just like complaining about the elections if you don't vote.

          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            Saying no is a vote. The new eagle that can't tie a square knot or recite the 12 points of the Scout Law shouldn't even be at a EBOR in the first place. The assurance he is qualified is determined long before he gets to the board. I don't participate in pencil whipping, and I have a right to say so with my no vote. Saying no in the first place is a lot more appropriate than getting up and leaving in the middle of the Board's deliberations.

        • #6
          'openly known.....' If that's the case, the problem started long before the EBOR. And it's the failure of the program as much as the boy. If he has all the requirements signed off and if he 'passes' the review (remember, it is a review, not a test) then he's going to advance. The time to address all this was years ago. Use this as a 'wake up call' for the leaders...the boy is done.

          Comment


          • fred johnson
            fred johnson commented
            Editing a comment
            Very well said. The EBOR is not the time to present a new standard to the scout. Create a feedback loop to the unit leaders and ask them what happened. Help the unit leaders develop ways to deal with and improve such advancement.

        • #7
          So explain to me again, why these unscout like boys get to the EBOR and their crappy attitudes, thieving, fighting, drug abusing, porno watchin, and general bad influences are all of a sudden a problem.


          No sympathy here.... You should have spoke up at second class, first class, star or life.......You missed your chance for quality control.

          The SM has failed as well. He needs to grow a pair and learn to say no..... Of course the SM might think the lad is fine.

          Comment


          • WAKWIB
            WAKWIB commented
            Editing a comment
            When I've seen some bad apples reach Eagle, they are usually the son of the SM or CC. Even if they are not, it's still obvious that they have been given a pass on many requirements along the way. Hopefully, situations like this are the exception and not the rule in the OP's troop.

          • Basementdweller
            Basementdweller commented
            Editing a comment
            My son, Son of an SM, Is held to a much higher standard than the rest of the troop. The CC held his last BOR and it last an hour. One of the Committee members said it was excessive, But he said that he was an impressed by the young man. Made dad smile and yes I am bragging....this coming from a life long scouter whom I hold in high esteem.

            So SM or CC sons in my troop get special treatment......The higher standard special treatment.

          • perdidochas
            perdidochas commented
            Editing a comment
            BD, exactly about the special treatment. This ASM's sons have a higher standard to reach than do other scouts. I would have it no different way.

        • #8
          I see two options for the OP, Decline participation in the BOR making clear that your understanding of the boy's character doesn't warrant a BOR. Participate, express your reservations to the boy, and ask him to explain how you may be mistaken. I would only suggest this to a scouter who has worked with a lot of boys and sat in on a number of BORs.

          Comment


          • #9
            I was just removed from a Troop's Committee because Troop Scoutmaster was chicken SH*T. I showed up in Full Uniform, I sat in on BOR along with the ASM and 2 Other Committee Members. I work hard to set a good example, but he is the Star Quarterback. And He gets what he wants. If Your Not One of the Good Ol' Boys..you have Problems. If Your asked to sit on an Eagle BOR and Feel that the Scouts today are not earning Eagle politely refuse and don't explain yourself other than a Polite " I am sorry but I have already agreed to help a friend do something that night type answer." If you ruffle feathers your on the outs like I am.

            Comment


            • qwazse
              qwazse commented
              Editing a comment
              Oh, I forgot to mention that standing your ground can sometimes wind up with you finding yourself with a little more free time.

            • Basementdweller
              Basementdweller commented
              Editing a comment
              Sorry to hear that.

              But why were you removed from the troop committee????

          • #10
            jps: Proud of you! If we don't stand up to lower standards, it means that we agree with them. With the paper-pushers on top squirting out Eagles like diarrhea, the least we can do is speak up. The best thing is to participate in the board and ask informed questions. Avoiding conflict in this case is not "Doing your best."

            Comment


            • #11
              Hummm..Me and Scoutmaster seem to have a Girl issue..Him and ASM are Couple..First Campout We got along, He did not like that. At One point he threw a Temper tantrum because I asked him to give her a Break .Nothing between us...I show Up in Full Scout Uniform..He shows up in Troop T Shirt. He said he picks who sits on BOR I am Just a Committee Member..So He proceeds to get Up set because I announced some OA Events to Troop he got Upset..I asked to Be allowed to Join Private Troop Facebook Page..He got Upset Because I posted my Pictures on My Facebook Page..I am assuming he is the One who cried about several projects I was Planning for Both Council and Lodge..and Reported me for Sale BSA related items without a License...And I had not sold a thing and was still putting the Project together to present to the Boys in Lodge to approve or disapprove. I was going to fund new Challenge Coins out of my Pocket..

              So In Order to not upset the troop Dynamic I was removed after 1 Camp out. That is Okay with Me...Karma will catch up with Him.

              Comment


              • moosetracker
                moosetracker commented
                Editing a comment
                Sounds like you committee and CC are not doing their jobs and allowing SM to run the whole shebang.. The BOR is a committee thing, something the Advancement chair organizes and committee members make up the BOR.. Don't know why he is also intruding into scout stuff you do outside the unit (council & OA).. There he has no authority..

              • Hueymungus
                Hueymungus commented
                Editing a comment
                If this was a BOR at the Troop level, why was the ASM on the BOR. That isn't allowed. It seems that there are other things afoot within this Troop. The SM does not pick who sits on a BOR. Consult the 2013 Guide to Advancement. The BOR is really under the Advancement Chair. There could be a MC that is incharge of handling the BOR and gets all the paperwork to the Adv Chair.

                Since your a Troop Committee Memeber, I would see why you having announcements at a Troop meeting would upset the SM. The SPL or OA Rep (Youth) should have made this announcements. The SM could have made those announcements during his SM Minute, but that's not the place either.

                As to the Facebook issue, if your posting photos of your son then that's fine. If it's with other Scouts that you can identify, then he may have a point. Not all parents want photos of their Scouts on Social Media.

                The Council/OA Lodge product selling should not have any direct affect at the Troop Level. Again, let the Scouts pitch the idea. You do the leg work for the leagle part that scouts cannot sign for. Hopefully you were using BSA Approved Vendors and that it was a project that was actually wanted.

                Have you taken the Scoutmaster/ASM Training and ITOLS? That might help you to better understand what is and isnt part of the program. Hopefully the SM & ASM are fully Trained too.

                The SM & ASM dynamic isn't lost on me, it isn't healthy. I personally would have the ASM as a MC. Dating while camping with the Troop is called Family Camping. It's not Scouting. That detracts from the whole program.

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                I think you were out of line with the OA announcement. All of our announcements go through the SPL and I have never heard an announcement for another units activities. Adults are not permitted to address the our troop.

                He obviously is threatened by you.

            • #12
              Note to Randy the OP, if you're in the middle of a Country Western song like JP describes, just dusting your hands of the entire affair may be the way to go. JP, hate to say it, but big ego's don't easily deflate. Never heard of an SM picking the board. We only let MCs and community leaders sit on BORs (no ASMs). But, this kind of thing can go on a long time if the unit likes their apple cart. You're better off dusting of your boots and serving elsewhere. They'll call you when they need someone to cook up them prickly pears proper.

              Comment


              • #13
                YEP I heard of such a beast.......One of the local SM's was famous for 100% Eagles. he would sign every merit badge for every boy. The district advancement chair at the time said that he would cancel EBOR till he could get "a scouter friendly to the boy" to participate.

                Had another unit run like you describe. Husband wife team.....

                So Question to you JP, are the ASM and SM married???

                Comment


                • King Ding Dong
                  King Ding Dong commented
                  Editing a comment
                  He doth protest to much.

                • Basementdweller
                  Basementdweller commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I know and understand where it comes from...

                  But the modern definition...Is not coal miners protesting about safety and pay.

                  Let me see we have a few self proclaimed rednecks in the neighborhood.....White, use tobacco, drink cheap beer, listen to really loud country music, one has a diesel pickup with a rebel flag in the rear window. Most I have met are very racist.

                • packsaddle
                  packsaddle commented
                  Editing a comment
                  In my area, there are all sorts of 'rednecks', to use the current vernacular term. Yes, I can show you some of the people whom you just described. I can also show you some tobacco-spitting, beer guzzling, flaming liberals and feminists. Some gay. Some who are artists, and some fiddlers who make their money on bluegrass but have chairs in the symphony playing the 'classics'. I think it is difficult to attach a label to prejudice other than to call it what it is. Simpler that way too.

              • #14
                No they are Not Married
                I was a Committee Member as well as Troop Adult Quartermaster which I just accepted responsibility of and was Removed. Never had a Chance. Attended 1 Committee Meeting , 3 Troop Meetings and 1 Camp Out. Always on time and in Full Uniform.

                I am still for Now A Registered Merit Badge Counselor for Reptile and Amphibian Study, Nature and Pets council wide
                He is an Adult in the Lodge also.

                I was gonna be having some of the Items made as Gift which would be given away. Even using the proper forms..
                I was going to go back to College to work on Metalsmithing and Silversmithing and I was gonna be doing gifts and Awards for Free.
                The Coins were going to made by one of two BSA Licensees.. I was Favoring Northwest Mint Myself..Nothing except art work was designed and for Free. And presentation was gonna be made to the Youth in the Lodge..However It was brought up that LODGE Could not afford the Free Coins..and the Current Coin is Not Selling well for $5 so it was decided to drill a Hole in a Few and add a Key Chain and Sell for $8 now. So Idea was not even brought to vote.

                No Parent has ever asked me to Remove any Photos from Any of My Facebook Public Albums from any Scouting Event..I usually post close to 1000 pictures from all the Scouting Events I attend..I am the "Unofficial" Official Photographer for the Council. For almost 2 Years now. I do Not Tag Youth. I leave that up to the parents or legal Guardians. I have been asked by Several Councils in Oklahoma and Texas to Attend Events to Take Pictures on a Regular Basis. I was even asked to Travel to Georgia and Missouri to Take Pictures. I served on Service Corp as a Photographer last Conclave

                I made the Announcement for Several Up and Coming OA and Council Functions because our Communications Suck in My Council. No one is being told hardly anything in a Timely Manner. Our Facebook Page has hardly Nothing Posted..When Camps got the Certifications they Posted Pictures, They Make Announcements daily..Our Nope..We just had a "Sporting Clays Event" No Idea who Won, How Much was Earned, How many participated.

                As Training I have taken Every Online BSA Training possible.
                I have asked to Attend some Training Schools as Back ups in case a Need Arises. Camp School, Climbing, Shooting.
                Reluctant to Shell out the Money just to kiss butt with "Woodbadge 21st Century"

                I have actually looked into transferring to a different Council and a New Lodge. I have participated with several already in Disaster Relief Operations so i might as well go where I am Welcome.
                Last edited by jpstodwftexas; 10-04-2013, 11:04 PM. Reason: Spelling and Grammar

                Comment


                • qwazse
                  qwazse commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yep, big insecurity issues here. They want their little fiefdom, and you came on strong offering a whole new world.


                  If you are interested in serving elsewhere besides MBC, talk to your DE or District Commissioner. He might have a suggestion or two of troops who need you. If he asks about this troop, just say "personality conflicts, I guess", shrug, and move on.

              • #15
                In retrospect, I probably should have excused myself from the EBOR. I guess I'm one of the odd balls that places too high of a respect for an Eagle Scout.

                Comment


                • jblake47
                  jblake47 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Sometimes that just isn't enough.
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