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Who carries a firearm on Scout Outings??? Page Title Module
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- Jul 2012
I don't own a firearm. One day I'd like to, but it's not a priority right now. I'd be having second thoughts about bringing a weapon on a camping trip. It's against the rules, and I'm sure there are parents of the Boys who would not appreciate that kind of "preparedness."
Ya Pack... bet old richardb's head is spinning around like that little girl in the exorcist.
GSDAD I am with Beavah.
- May 2009
- Mar 2009
"So HICO if you had a handgun what would you have done????? Popped momma bear? What about the cubs popped them too???? What caliber is appropriate to kill a bear?? What happens if you wounded it and it got away????? You going to spend the entire weekend chasing a wounded bear thru the woods??????"
I guess you didn't bother reading the part where I said "Our first response to seeing said animal (like the mama bear and 2 cubs that invaded our campsite last summer) is to carefully move back away from the animals so as to not be threatening."
However, sometimes animals don't ALWAYS do what you expect. We knew exactly why the bears were in the campsite and we didn't panic. However, you're acting like all camping is done in the Northeast. It's not -- we encounter nature out here even in town. I've found fresh mountain lion tracks in a city park. I haven't had need for a firearm for self-defense yet -- then again, I also haven't had to use my CPR mask, my air splint or most of the other things in my first aid kit. God willing, I won't need any of that, firearms included, but it doesn't stop me from wanting to be prepared in case I do.
The fact of the matter here is that you and a number of others are reacting to guns emotionally without any real data or logical reasoning. I wouldn't blame you for wanting to be sure anyone carrying is trained, proficient and aware of their surroundings to prevent negligent discharges but I DO blame you for acting like scared chicken about people who do choose to carry.
- Aug 2012
You know, until this thread, I never even considered the notion of one of the adults (or worse, a Scout) carrying a firearm on a Troup function.
I guess I'll get less sleep than I used to.
- Oct 2008
A study done in Florida of CCW permit holders showed that they committed less crime per capita with guns than did police officers. There is no need to worry about CCW permit holders with guns. Most are overly cautious, stable individuals.
Yah, yeh have to read research in this area with a lot of skepticism, because it tends to be lobbyist research that's done poorly.
One of da better studies done by public health officials was in Texas for an 8-year period. It showed that overall CCW permit holders had lower crime conviction rates than da rest of da population.
However, that lower rate was driven by da burglary and robbery statistics, eh? CCW permit holders were much less likely to commit ordinary burglary or robbery. No surprise, that's a younger, poorer population that does that stuff, and there's a lot more burglary than more serious offenses.
When yeh looked at more serious crimes - terror threats, sexual offenses, intentional killing, weapons offenses and deadly conduct - CCW permit holders were more likely than da general population to be convicted of such offenses. About 2.5 times as likely on average. Includin' sexual offenses against children. See http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2012.300807
Now, that too should be taken with a grain of salt, even though it's done a bit better and comports with common sense. The data on these things doesn't lend itself to proper controls.
Regardless, it's worth thinkin' and readin' through this stuff carefully. Especially if yeh see an argument that seems too one-sided. There's just too much special interest lobby obfuscation on this topic.
(This message has been edited by Beavah)
engineer, till this topic started on the other thread I had no idea how insecure my fellow scouters are. I am just mystified at the lack of confidence,fear and hiding behind the "Being Prepared" to carry a gun.
How about the fellow that can't sleep in the woods without his gun or dogs????? Sad.
- Dec 2000
Why do you call us insecure because we carry a gun?
I am not insecure about anything. I have been accosted one to many times to not carry.
- Aug 2008
Never carried on a scout outing. I know of one time (as a scout) that I WISH a leader had a weapon of some sort. I usually don't have one on a private campout either. I have w/ a rifle when I'm going "plinking" in an approved BLM area. If I was going to do a long hike away from civilization (i.e. a partial or thru of the PCT) - I would likely have a handgun and CCW (or carry exposed - which is now illegal in the great socialist state of CA too). I don't care WHAT the state / federal parks OR California says about me needing to having a CCW permit at that point. Its about personal protection from both man and beast when I would be several days from rescue.
As a 15y/o and on a 8 day trek at northern tier. Night #3, we had a momma and cub come into camp and the cub climbed the tree we had the food pack strung from. Campsite was on a peninsula out into the lake, no place to go but try to canoe out into the lake at night. We had to strike up the fire and used rocks to "encourage" baby bear to get out of the tree and leave our food pack alone. Then kept fire going all night and took turns in two man teams standing guard. If those animals had gotten our food, we were a minimum of 3 days away from any replentishment stop, with 7 scouts and 2 adults to feed. With a firearm, the actions would have probably been the same. However, I remember wishing someone had a gun... maybe just wishful thinking, but I'd still like my chances better at surviving a bear attack with a gun than sans a firearm.
I have camped many times in Anza Borrego State Park in San Diego county. Have hiked into remote spots that require filtering of water resupply via small oasis or intermitent standing water in slot canyons. I have seen on more than one occasion fresh mountain lion tracks around these watering holes. Now, the chances of an encounter, much less attack, are extremely slim especially in daylight hours. But again, if you had to fight for your life - would you rather with a gun, a knife, or bare handed?
I have never had any reason to fear my fellow man on a campout. Wildlife, maybe?
I do find it somewhat humorous that in less than 3 to 4 generations, we have gone from an attitude of "Why wouldn't you take a firearm with you into the wilderness" to one of "Why would you ever need / want to take a firearm into the wilderness?" Seems 50 to 100 years ago, if you went out on a long trek and DIDN'T have a firearm, you would be viewed as careless in your choice - now its the opposite. The wilderness hasn't changed, so I assume its the citizenry that has.
- Apr 2009
Can tell yall don't have feral hogs in yalls direction much...
A Feral Sow is worse than a Momma Bear
In Small Groups I would carry a Weapon more than Likely..
Hidden of Course
When Sleeping it would be locked away under two locks
When at Camp with 1000 People very very very unlikely Feral hoogs will get near the Camp...Heck even the Coyotes Howl Miles away when we all Camp together.
like Most Organizations the Rules are to try and prevent any law suits not about protecting the Kids...
God Forbid someone ever Attack a Scout Camp and One of Yall are there and get killed and The Headlines Reads "Massacre at Scout Camp...Hundreds Die..BSA SUED BECAUSE RULES PREVENTED LAWFUL CARRYING OF FIRE ARMS" instead of "Massacre at Scout Camp...Hundreds Saved By Lawful Carrying Gun Owner"
#s of self/friend-inflicted gunshot wounds
# of beast inflicted wounds
# of Self/friend-inflicted gunshot wounds : 0
# of beast inflicted wounds (Attacks 7 (worst 23 itches by feral pig while trying to scramble up a tree without a gun)treed 11 hours before pig decided I was not worth waiting for me to come down out of the tree to attack again..Total number of Tusk punctures/bites 42
# of Rabid Skunks killed 13 (8 in one year at Scout Camp)
Yeh don't think da wilderness has changed in the last 100 years, DeanRx? Are yeh dippin' into da Rx medications?
Da reason folks took guns into da wilderness back then was hostile natives and need to hunt for food. Both of those are gone now.
Yeh should have left da bear cub alone, and things would have been fine. You aren't in da food chain of a black bear, eh? You're just a smelly monkey.
All I'm hearin' is fear after irrational fear. Mostly I reckon it's folks who just like da hobby and are like kids with a video game. They don't recognize when it's not appropriate to carry. The rest, though, worry me a bit. Folks whose fears don't line up with da real risks I reckon are more likely to respond too aggressively in situations which require prudence and judgment.
So I'm fine with average, responsible citizens carryin'. I'm less OK with folks who are fearful about impending economic collapse or invasions of armed folks fleein' a natural disaster or paranoia about da big bad wolf-critter in da woods possessin' weapons. Like as not, they'll be so focused on da coming global collapse that they won't mind their mentally disturbed son and will allow him access to a serious force multiplier causin' a tragedy. :P
Anyways, as far as scout outings go, a firearm is like a video game. Leave it behind unless da purpose of da outing is to play with such things.
(This message has been edited by Beavah)