Not in my pack anymore, but we had a few dads carry at events, either open or concealed. BUT they were in law enforcement.
We had one guy not only carrying, but show up to training with his crime scene van. He was on call that weekend, and luckily was not called out for the class he was teaching.
Also does anyone remember the Bob Gates story about him and the father-son camp out while was director of the CIA? Not only was he carrying, but he had a small platoon of security folks with submachineguns. Don't think any troops wanted to try and capture that unit's flag.
Finally, and this is a story I was told. One long time scouter was a police adviser in Vietnam, and one of the things he did was Scouting over there. Some how or another there was a truce between the VC and provincial police in regards to the scout camp outs he carried just in case, but the VC didn't bother the scouts.
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- Aug 2008
I have never carried a firearm on a scout outing.
Never even considered it.
I have never had a conflict or confrontation with the public on an outing. Never felt threatened by anything or anybody. Well except for those scouters who were on a troop outing and bullied me out of the shelter on the AT. I was makin dinner when they walked up and took possession of the shelter.
Maybe I am a product of my environment... Living in the DMZ, a trip into the woods where I just need to worry about the mice, squirrels and raccoons getting into my food is a vacation. Honestly are things that tough in the burbs or small town america?????? If thats the case I am glad I live in DA HOOD.
I have a mix of emotions tied to scouters who feel threatened to the point they have to carry fire arms on scout outing.
- Mar 2009
As has already been posted, carrying a firearm is a violation of the G2SS. Having said that, this is just one of many points where I disagree with the G2SS. Frankly, I don't much care for the G2SS -- I recognize the need for it in today's litigious society but many of the points in it are just ridiculous. I laughed for years when it prohibited anything resembling a firearm while the top prize for selling popcorn was a marshmallow shooter. I will still argue bitterly with the morons who want to eliminate "no adult" patrol campouts as they were some of the best campouts I ever had as a Scout.
I'm worried about those of you who are so paranoid about someone carrying. You've shown you're reacting with emotions rather than knowledge or reason. You DO realize that people with CCW permits have some of the lowest crime rates of any demographic? That CCW holders frequently save lives? In most cases, I wouldn't want to carry anyway but because of the G2SS, I am PREVENTED from doing the most I could to protect my Scouts in an extreme circumstance. Be prepared. Yeah, right.
Some of us camp in areas where there's :::shudder::: wildlife. You know, like mountain lions and bears? Our first response to seeing said animal (like the mama bear and 2 cubs that invaded our campsite last summer) is to carefully move back away from the animals so as to not be threatening. It was too late to return home but luckily the boys were able to sleep in a room in the camp master's cabin while I slept in my vehicle. Having said that, I would have liked something more than my Buck 110 or Leatherman available if worst came to worst.
- Feb 2011
I understand the desire to have protection from wild animals and I think there should be some sort of exception for that. I do have concerns, G2SS aside, about having firearms around idiot boys who, on occasion, lack control around fire much less bullets.
I am not paranoid about folks carrying. I am a CCW holder.
I am just alarmed at the number of adult men that can not go on a scout outing unarmed.
Eagle the troops last backpack trip it was an hour walk to get cell coverage another hour to the road during daylight. I was not worried about our safety.
So HICO if you had a handgun what would you have done????? Popped momma bear? What about the cubs popped them too???? What caliber is appropriate to kill a bear?? What happens if you wounded it and it got away????? You going to spend the entire weekend chasing a wounded bear thru the woods??????
the bear was in the campsite for food.....just that simple.....How clean was the campsite? Did the folks before you keep a clean campsite???? If the bears are habituated to humans then the camp owner is under obligation to deal with it either thru a professional hunter of fish and game trapping and removing the problem animals.
Bearspray is a better option
- Mar 2009
Anybody else ever had the joy of bushwhacking into a garden patch of marijuana? Surprise!
The first time I was scouting for bow season in a year old national forest clear-cut. You know where all that fresh green growth attracts deer? And there is plenty of sunlight in a remote location...
I was carrying, but I figured that the 'gardeners' would have me over-matched. The hair on my neck didn't lay down for a couple of miles!
The second time we found a patch on our hunting lease. Reported it; watched it; made note of any strange tire tracks. It went away one night.
You have a CCW and carry on non-Scouting events. The same what-ifs apply during these events that apply in your daily life. G2SS aside, how does the venue change anything?
- Jun 2002
I've been in the boonies in lots of places...never worried much about bears or snakes. Just stayed aware and prepared.
Humans are another story.
There are places in our great country where you darn well better pack a gun. Certain patches of desert, down south by the border, come to mind.
Certain times in life, your good intentions, high ideals, and friendly offer of a cup of coffee will not dissuade a dirtbag from evil.
I understand the BSA policy about not carrying firearms. So please consult LE and forest service about places to camp where you'll be less likely to encounter sundry criminals, dope runners, dope growers, human traffickers, and the like.
If you are in the boonies on your own time, be aware of where you are going, and if you need to carry a gun, carry it.
Depending on the location, it isn't paranoia. Sometimes, it's just good common sense. Life insurance.
Because the dirtbags are out there. I'll spare you my encounters with them, but rest assured, they are out there.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)
GS you don't know me from adam.
I live in not quite a ghetto but an area that has transitioned in 15 years from decent to well fairly rotten. I do not normally carry no need to even in Da Hood.
I carry only when I am doing something I view as risky, after midnight trips to the grocery, or the neighbor banging on the door that she heard a noise, the police will not investigate it.
And during the 8 years of having a ccw it has been less than 10 times.
I don't live my life in fear.
Desert....I understand living close to our boarder shared with mexico I could see it. We don't have any National wilderness to speak of in my area of the country and we stay on established trail systems so the likelyhood for us to run into these sorts of folks and their weed patch is slim to none.
Carrying on a scout camp.....No reason to.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)
- Dec 1999
I too am surprised to read how many scouters seem to think G2SS is disposable when it comes to firearms. I'd be interested in learning what the national office thinks would be a reasonable response to a scouter who violated G2SS in this manner.
You're right BD, we don't know each other. We will have to agree to disagree on this topic. We're not going to change each other's minds.
I worked at a Scout Camp where we were confronted by a group of vandals with knives, and other improvised weapons. What made them see the err in their ways? The firearm of a retired LEO who happened to be in camp with us. While walking to the car after an OA meeting, I was confronted a vagrant with a utility knife who wanted my coat. A leader asked if he was willing to get shot taking a kid's coat. He ran off. These instances happened when I was a teen. Society has changed for the worst in the years since, I will do my part to keep myself, my family, and my Scouts safe. I am discreet, and vigilant when carrying. I don't really sleep well on campouts or overnights because I worry about the kids. Yet when camping with my family I sleep soundly, maybe because my dogs are there.
I, like you, have a carry permit. I have been carrying for almost 20years and it is second nature. The only people that have ever "made" me have been LEO that know I carry because we shoot together.
- Oct 2008
interesting subject, I dont own a gun, just was not brought up in that environment, With that said, I think it is good for scouts to learn about firearms. If it is really safety we are worried about on outings, is there a rent a cop for a mile hike in the future>????
So is carrying a fire arm in violation of the G2SS enough to get booted out????
I wonder if carrying a gun at BSA events as an nonLEO citizen is better or worse in the eyes of the BSA than say being gay or atheist???
- Jun 2005
Society has changed for the worst in the years since
Actually, da crime and violent crime rates have fallen dramatically in da years since, despite poor economic times that would traditionally increase crime. Society has in fact changed for the better, not worse.
I don't really sleep well on campouts or overnights because I worry about the kids.
So I have spent several thousands of days in da wilderness on 5 continents without havin' had da slightest worry or need to carry unless I was actually huntin'. If yeh are genuinely so worried that yeh can't get a good night's sleep while out in da woods then it's time to seek professional help. Seriously. It might be that yeh just don't have enough experience so your imagination is runnin' wild, or it might be a more serious mental health condition. Either way, for your own health and da safety of da kids and family, yeh should talk to someone. I personally wouldn't let yeh near a campout with kids, and would be da first to terminate your BSA registration if yeh insisted.
Now, are there a few places in da world where I wouldn't take kids campin'? Yah, sure. Da mountains around Kashmir are beautiful, but that's not a spot for American kids. There are a few spots in domestic ranges like da Siskiyous where there's been enough meth or other drug traffic that perhaps yeh should be thoughtful. What's one fellow with a pistol goin' to do with a bunch of rifle-armed meth manufacturers? Bein' thoughtful means not takin' children into those areas if yeh honestly feel that's da risk, not pretendin' it will be safe because you are bringin' one pistol to an automatic rifles fight.
(This message has been edited by Beavah)
- Jun 2012
I am a CCW holder and carry whenever I can. Carry on schools is a felony in my state, so between scout meetings and kid transport that limits it quite a bit. I've gone back and forth about carrying on outings because of the GTSS policy. I've thought that if I ever actually had to draw on a threat, the last thing I'll be worried about it the GTSS and my future career as a scouter. I'm uncomfortable not carrying on outings, but also somewhat as uncomfortable when I do. When I do, it is definitely deep concealment. I'm ok if some want to label that as paranoid.
Ok gotta go...have to go flag the land mines on the property and check the perimeter.